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[H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Arlee » 12 Jun 2011, 05:24

That is correct Val... which is why I say numerous times in this FAQ that unless you try it, you have no clue if you would actually do more dps under hit cap.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Veiled » 12 Jun 2011, 10:25

Anyone who reads this will fully understand the debate and I thank you all for presenting them in a calm and collective manner. Let's just not let this go any further than this...

This is just one of those things, man.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Arlee » 15 Jun 2011, 09:38

Updated with 4.2 speculations.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Kilee » 15 Jun 2011, 13:07

Might find these tests interesting.

The purpose of this test is to show:

1. PTR stat weights.
2. That lowering hit does not change the weight of it in relation to the other stats. There's no "threshold" at which hit becomes more or less important (aside from cap obviously).

Simulationcraft results are with the setting to PTR and this profile.

@ 16.83% hit (Patchwerk) - 24893dps

Int: 1
SP: 0.7586
Haste: 0.5395
Hit/Spirit: 0.4996
Mastery: 0.4242
Crit: 0.4098

@ 16.83% hit (HelterSkelter) - 20854dps

Int: 1
SP: 0.5839
Haste: 0.5494
Hit/Spirit: 0.5247
Crit: 0.3442
Mastery: 0.3031

@ 12.89% hit (Patchwerk) - 24796dps

Int: 1
SP: 0.7504
Haste: 0.5628
Hit/Spirit: 0.5113
Mastery: 0.4285
Crit: 0.4143

@ 12.89% hit (HelterSkelter) - 20594dps

Int: 1
SP: 0.5844
Haste: 0.5419
Hit/Spirit: 0.5298
Crit: 0.3421
Mastery: 0.3131

Conclusions:

As of now, nothing has changed on the PTR vs Live. The stat weights look about the same. Trading hit for lower stats (mastery or crit) lowers our dps, but this correlates with the stat weights. If we traded hit for haste, dps should theoretically go up, which in the end just means "stick to the stat weights".

As our gear scales upwards into higher iLevel gear, it is possible something may change, but not very likely. Generally speaking stats scale upwards together at the same pace. But with Hit being so close to Haste in value, your theory may come to pass at something like the 391 iLevel.

I don't have access to a sim file with higher iLevel gear at the moment. I'll do more testing when some iLevel 391 sim files are released.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Arlee » 15 Jun 2011, 18:25

Thanks Kilee :) I hope that is how it will play out. The thing I am mostly concerned about is how much more of our dps MB will be. If it is enough I am concerned that missing MB will be a big enough deal to mess things up, probably mostly for the people who push going really low on hit.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Kilee » 15 Jun 2011, 20:23

Hm... I'll have to wait for tier 12 to be imported into the shadow priest profiles. Does anyone know how to do this now? I wonder if that char dev site has access to PTR items (edit: no that doesn't work).
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Althor » 17 Jun 2011, 23:38

Hi guys.

I'm in the process of doing the Shadow Priest Tier 12 BiS profiles right now.
From what I've seen so far (with the heroic level gear) the best trinkets seem to be (in order):
1) Necromantic Focus
2) Fiery Quintessence
3) Darkmoon Card: Volcano (yep...crazy I know)
4) Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor
(the rest)

At present I intend to put out profiles both with and without the legendary.

Speaking of which at present we're using the old hit/haste etc. stats that are on ptr.wowhead.com for it and I've just put in a default proc chance of 1% for now for the proc (the code has separate proc chances for all the casters but they're all set to 1% for now. I've set it to 0% for the other specs and classes....and damn them for even thinking about taking it ;P)
As the actual proc chance will be dependent upon spec we won't know what the actual proc rate will be without testing for each spec rather than being able to just datamine the values like we do for most items.

I did run a 30k iteration scale factor test (without DI though so far) and it had Mastery just behind Haste with Spirit/Hit around the same as Mastery and Crit a bit behind. All however (in this Tier12 Heroic gear) were above 0.5 normalized values (against Int) meaning that gemming full red might not be the best course of action anymore.

Once I finish working on these Shadow Priest profiles, and maybe once I (and the other SimulationCratt devs) do up some more BiS profiles for the other classes, I'll put out a new release.
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Veiled » 18 Jun 2011, 11:57

the king speaks! althor has pulled out his abacus! haha <3

I can't wait to see what you theorycrafters find. It's interesting about the "red gemming". We could go back to *gasp* matching socket bonuses again?
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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Schisme » 18 Jun 2011, 15:04

Althor wrote:Hi guys.

I'm in the process of doing the Shadow Priest Tier 12 BiS profiles right now.
From what I've seen so far (with the heroic level gear) the best trinkets seem to be (in order):
1) Necromantic Focus
2) Fiery Quintessence
3) Darkmoon Card: Volcano (yep...crazy I know)
4) Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor
(the rest)

At present I intend to put out profiles both with and without the legendary.

Speaking of which at present we're using the old hit/haste etc. stats that are on ptr.wowhead.com for it and I've just put in a default proc chance of 1% for now for the proc (the code has separate proc chances for all the casters but they're all set to 1% for now. I've set it to 0% for the other specs and classes....and damn them for even thinking about taking it ;P)
As the actual proc chance will be dependent upon spec we won't know what the actual proc rate will be without testing for each spec rather than being able to just datamine the values like we do for most items.

I did run a 30k iteration scale factor test (without DI though so far) and it had Mastery just behind Haste with Spirit/Hit around the same as Mastery and Crit a bit behind. All however (in this Tier12 Heroic gear) were above 0.5 normalized values (against Int) meaning that gemming full red might not be the best course of action anymore.

Once I finish working on these Shadow Priest profiles, and maybe once I (and the other SimulationCratt devs) do up some more BiS profiles for the other classes, I'll put out a new release.


Althor, is that testing with correct VPLC procs? I've heard there are lots of issues with testing it because of the questions surrounding the proc.

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Re: [H2P] Hit cap FAQ

Postby Althor » 18 Jun 2011, 21:17

Schisme wrote:
Althor wrote:Hi guys.

I'm in the process of doing the Shadow Priest Tier 12 BiS profiles right now.
From what I've seen so far (with the heroic level gear) the best trinkets seem to be (in order):
1) Necromantic Focus
2) Fiery Quintessence
3) Darkmoon Card: Volcano (yep...crazy I know)
4) Variable Pulse Lightning Capacitor
(the rest)

At present I intend to put out profiles both with and without the legendary.

Speaking of which at present we're using the old hit/haste etc. stats that are on ptr.wowhead.com for it and I've just put in a default proc chance of 1% for now for the proc (the code has separate proc chances for all the casters but they're all set to 1% for now. I've set it to 0% for the other specs and classes....and damn them for even thinking about taking it ;P)
As the actual proc chance will be dependent upon spec we won't know what the actual proc rate will be without testing for each spec rather than being able to just datamine the values like we do for most items.

I did run a 30k iteration scale factor test (without DI though so far) and it had Mastery just behind Haste with Spirit/Hit around the same as Mastery and Crit a bit behind. All however (in this Tier12 Heroic gear) were above 0.5 normalized values (against Int) meaning that gemming full red might not be the best course of action anymore.

Once I finish working on these Shadow Priest profiles, and maybe once I (and the other SimulationCratt devs) do up some more BiS profiles for the other classes, I'll put out a new release.


Althor, is that testing with correct VPLC procs? I've heard there are lots of issues with testing it because of the questions surrounding the proc.


I performed by own testing on the VPLC on the PTR servers over a night with the help of a G15 keyboard. (ssshh don't tell anyone). The proc rate appears to be pretty much a 15% chance to proc each time it gains a charge except when it hits 10 charges when it all gets consumed.
It's possible the proc rate might be as high as 20% but my numbers were suggesting 15% with the amount of tests I did.
I'm sure with more testing people will come up with a more accurate figure for it. But yes, my numbers are based off a 15% proc chance at each gain of a charge with 100% when it hits 10 stacks.
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