[H2P] How to use the Tier 13 4-piece set bonus.

[Taradenha]

Should I do VT first? Maybe we should not even care about evangelism and just cast DP/SWP/VT and recast VT/DP normally or wait for next buff proc.

Yes, we shouldn't care about evangelism, the GCDs used to build the 10% bonus dmg are worth less than the dot ticks you're missing (1 VT tick is worth more than 10% of its total dmg), also SW:P and DP will get refreshed anyway, SW:P will get soft refreshed with your normal rotation and recasting DP is not a dps loss due to IDP (it's actually a slight dps increase at a high mana cost).

[Rubine]

Wouldn't casting SW:P be better because it auto refreshes while we get 5 stacks of eva. Kinda like this(at end of rotation):
MS(last), SWP, MB (Inst w/3orbs), MFx4, VT, DP, MB, MF...ctd...

During this time SWP can tick for 6GCDs before VT starts ticking and will be auto reapplied with 5xeva when we Flay again.

I always like to cast SWP first because the sooner it's up, the sooner it can be ticking to proc shadow orbs.

[Raquell]

Thank you for your quick replies Taradenha and Rubine.

Yeah did a little more math. IDP is about 7-10% stronger than Mind Flay from top 20 spriest parses

*****Math for the interested, else skip down*****
Excuse me Kilee but I used your WoL logs and character to sim most of this since my items are not ideal:
Rounded Tick Values
VT 9.7k@2.5s ticks
SWP 5.0k@2s ticks
DP 4.7k@2.2s ticks

Getting 5 stacks of Evangelism takes 1 full MF, and 1 GCD clipped MF (4 MF ticks).
- this translates to 3 GCDs (MF is base 3s cast opposed to 1.5s cast)
- you will cast the same amount of MF after you apply dots anyways so those two negate
- during 3 GCDs (1.1531 without DI), VT 1.38 ticks, SWP 1.73 ticks, DP 1.57 ticks
- this translate into 30k (rounded from 29.6k)
- 10% of a full VT, full DP, and 2 ticks of SWP is 12.5k

Considering you can refresh DP as soon as you get 5 Eva with slight dps gain, the gap is even greater.


Skip math for some conclusions here:
- You should never Mind Flay with no dots on, even for Evangelism Buff, (outside of opener)
- When reapplying dots, although SWP has lower DPET, it generates orbs and apparitions which has high utility

Next goal is to see if that first MS before SF is worth it for 50% cast time reduction and 30% crit on first MB.
Also for targets hp =<25% I think we simply replace 4th MS with SWD, then SWD again after MB. Not sure where is best but basically squeeze in two SWD into the rotation without giving up the MB crit (3 orb crit MB is highest DPET spell we have). I could calculate where it benefits the most but it takes time @.@

I'm glad our mechanics are so simple that napkin math can figure it out! (compared to firemage theorycraft makes my brain hurt)

[Taradenha]

Although this doesn't change the conclusion you don't need 3 GCDs to stack evangelism, you only need 3 ticks and 2 casts, this is how you do it:

0s - cast MF
1s - first tick
1.5s - recast MF/end of first GCD
2s - second tick
3s - third tick/end of second GCD

These are the values for 0 haste, for actual values just divide by (1 + haste%).

Unlike previous tiers you'll have empowered shadows when you start casting dots, you dont have to fish for an early shadow orb. Just cast VT because of the higher dps.

[Caewyn]

So i'm no maths expert but had a question which will probably sound noob to all you theory experts :P

Was testing out the 4 set for the first time tonight on a dummy, using the spell order listed in the OP. However, on some occasions my last MB was occurring when the SF was out, and sometimes when it wasn't. Now I know its a 3 orb MB anyway, but when exactly would the last tick of SF occur? Just bothered me a bit :P

[Kilee]

When you use a cancel aura macro, there's some latency/lag involved, so the end of the sequence sometimes doesn't make it to the shadowfiend. That is why my current sequence has an early filler Mind Flay at the end. It's the only way I could be sure to get the 2nd (last) mind blast out with 3 orbs.

On another subject, I purchased bottled wishes last night and played around with it, and my dps (on the dummy) went up by almost 500 dps, but only if I went back to my original rotation. This surprised me, but I guess it made sense (you have to hit that 15 second window for the proc).

I used my current rotation in a raid all night last night, and I did well, but not as high as previously. I am starting to think my previous rotation was a little better somehow. Something that happens in game that you can't see on paper or sims about the timing...

[Blackmorgrim]

Just a little reminder, folks, you don't need to have 3 MBs hit while shadowfiend is out. The damage bonus from shadowfiend is from the orbs it generates. The important thing is getting MB to hit with 3 orbs while DA is active.

In my current setup my GCD sits at around 1.15 sec, shadowfiend hits approximately every 1.6 secs (hard to judge without an addon to track it)

MF,MF,MSx2or3,
0.00 - Shadowfiend summoned, hits instantly (3 orbs active)
1.15 - Cast DA + Instant MB+3 orb bonus
1.60 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
3.20 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active) *WASTED*
3.35 - MS+3 Orb Bonus
4.60 - MS
4.80 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
5.75 - MS+3 Orb Bonus -> MF
6.40 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
7.65 - Clip MF(2) with Instant MB+3 Orb Bonus
8.00 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
9.60 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active) *WASTED*
9.95 - MS+3 Orb Bonus
11.10 - MS
11.20 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
12.25 - MS+3 Orb Bonus
12.80 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
13.40 - MS+3 Orb Bonus-> MF
14.40 - Shadowfiend hits (3 orbs active)
14.95 - Clip MF(2) with Instant MB+3 orb Bonus
15.00 - Shadowfiend ends
19.15 - DA ends

Now there might be minor tweaking in the timeline, but otherwise this is what I pretty much see. The priority here was making sure I got 3 MBs in there with an auto-crit, and 3 orbs. If you can't do that initial wind-up though, its timing will be totally thrown off.

And yes, I know this is does not account for latency at all, but its more for the purpose of the general layout of the rotation.

[Taradenha]

SF hits every 1.5s.
MF is a dps loss, do not cast it. You could even start casting dots instead of that last MF.
MS before SF is a dps loss, do not cast it.

[Kilee]

Blackmorgrim's rotation works. I've been using a variation of it for about a week now. I can't explain to you why it works, when it seems it shouldn't, but it does.

I've listed the variation I'm using in the OP under "Rotation 2". The only reason I don't use pre-mind spikes and include MB before SF is because I can't really get it to work consistently. Sometimes it feels like the SF attacks late or something, and the first MB doesn't catch 3 orbs, plus you use up 2 GCDs with mind spikes before it begins. Although the additional damage from the 3 AA-powered Mind Blasts might be enough to offset them. I'll play around with that rotation a little more to see if I can get more consistency out of it.

[Aleysia]

The issue I have with casting an instant MB right after SF is not only the dps loss from MSx3, but the first hit SF does on a dummy can be dodged/parried/somethingorother, based on reading my combat logs. I assume that's what you were seeing Kilee. I don't know if it's worth it to have to worry about whether your target is facing you, even if an extra crit 3-orb MB slightly outweighs the MSx3 needed at the start.