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[H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

[H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Drye » 24 Aug 2012, 22:22

Haste Breakpoints:

Image


Q&A about the 8085 breakpoint:

What affects the breakpoints:

- The 4pc t14 changes the required haste to gain the 2nd tick.

Twintop wrote:The extra 3sec from T14 4P will change the breakpoints, sort of. Haste breakpoints are determined by: a) duration, and b) tick speed. If VT goes from 15sec duration and 3sec base tick speed to 18sec duration and 3sec base tick speed when you have the T14 4P bonus, then its Haste Breakpoints will be the same as SWP without T14 4P (because it is, by default, 18sec/3sec), or, 8085 haste for VT+2.

SWP will change to 6652 (6165 goblin) for SWP+2, and SWP+3 will become 12433 (11889 goblin), which is well out of reach for T14 gear.

So in short, no, you'll still aim for 8085 haste, the reasoning is just slightly different.



What do I gain by getting the haste breakpoint?

- Reaching 8085(SW:P) & 8064(DP) haste will gain you 250.3817PP in a full BiS gear setup.


How does the affect me at a lower ilvl?

- This number will be much lower depending on the amount of int you have. Having a low ilvl will depreciate this number significantly.



How will I know if going for the breakpoint is worth it for me?

- The easiest way to decide if this option is most optimal for you is to sim yourself under the break point with the gear and than over. Kilee does a great job of explaining everything in a quoted post under.



For those who don't want to sim themselves, general rules of thumb:

- Giving up less than 250 int to gain 8085 haste is a straightforward DPS gain

- Since each haste you gain over int is also valued at 0.4475 you only lose 0.5525PP by swapping out haste for int.

- You can give up 452 int for haste to gain the haste cap and see an increase in DPS.



The do's and dont's

Something that a lot of people tend to forget is that, every stat increase whether it be haste/crit/mastery/hit/int all have a direct impact on each other (int obviously affecting the rest with the highest increase). So for a long and more accurate answer, there will be a different value for each bracket you are in ilvl wise(higher stats). With the small amount of int we currently have the breakpoint really isn't worth dropping lets say 700 int to get.


Why is everyone geming 320 haste now?

People really tend to over value the 8085 breakpoint because of the ".78" haste value. Most of those people, are who don't understand really what the breakpoint does. It adds an extra tick to the length of sw:p, so sw;p will go from ~17 seconds to ~19 seconds. This gain allows from more gcds throughout the fight, which is where the larger portion of the dps gain comes from, not the actual tick.

There are many outliers that will throw off the number. The number comes from full BIS which brought up the 250.3817 PP value, so that number will be much lower compared to the 12-16k int we have now to the 19-20k int we will have in BIS.

*Something important to note:

Obviously this dps gain can be larger and less depending on the fight. If you look at a fight like stone guard, where you have a few targets to multi dot and keep dots on this dps increase will obviously be larger compared to a fight like spirit kings when there is a ton of movement in and you need to spam sw:p while moving.

Kilee's math behind it:

Kilee wrote:I've not had as much free time as I had back in Cata to work on proofs like this. I'll go over the method for figuring out how much dps hitting the haste breakpoints are worth.

First you take a character profile that is under the haste mark. Then sim that, find the dps and the int scale factor for it.

http://chardev.org/profile/7908-BISNo2.html
DPS: 103,414
Int: 3.91

Then you take a character profile that is above the haste mark, and get the same values.

http://chardev.org/profile/4622-BISNo1.html
DPS: 104,398
Int: 3.95

Take the difference of the dps, and divide by the average of the scale factors:

(104,398-103,414)/((3.91+3.95)/2) = 250.3817 PP

Actually a bit lower than my first prediction... don't kill yourself trying to get it...
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Kilee » 28 Aug 2012, 15:04

Image

This includes the level 85 haste breakpoints. Had a lot of people asking this question today. I'll take it back down after MoP hits.

If there's still a difference between the OP VT+1 and this one by the time you read this, this one should have the correct numbers.

Here is a link to a larger size:
http://lesgrognards.net/forums/gallery/8_28_08_12_3_53_44.jpeg
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Elvenbane » 04 Sep 2012, 08:09

Do you know what the MF/MB sync point is?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Kilee » 04 Sep 2012, 08:40

0% haste - 8 mf ticks (not possible)
12.5% haste - 9 mf ticks (3036 @ 90, 915 @ 85)
25% haste - 10 mf ticks (8096 @ 90, 2440 @ 85)
37.5% haste - 11 mf ticks (13155 @ 90, 3964 @ 85)

Looks like 10 mf ticks lines up pretty evenly with the 2nd extra tick of DP and SW: P.

However.... I'm not sure this is as applicable as it was previously because MB has an 8 sec CD. You are bound to refresh a dot or something else inbetween too many times during the fight for it to really make a difference or impact the cast rotation and/or stat weights.

Perhaps another person will have a different perspective on this. I don't think it will impact us like it did in Cata.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Woaden » 04 Sep 2012, 08:51

Well this x-pac screams for Self Simming. I mean there's 9 combos of talents and they vary depending on the fight. This is arguably the MOST interesting point in WoW's history for Talenting.

I would guess that while 8085 is a great baseline that it may vary from person to person.
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Kalenz » 04 Sep 2012, 09:13

Let me see if I got it.

With 8064 haste rating I'll receive some 'Ticks' bonuses from my DoTs like:
-
DP+2
SW:P+2
VT+1
-
Is it right?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Twintop » 04 Sep 2012, 09:19

Kalenz wrote:Let me see if I got it.

With 8064 haste rating I'll receive some 'Ticks' bonuses from my DoTs like:
-
DP+2
SW:P+2
VT+1
-
Is it right?


Here's the breakpoints in order:

1330 (896) - DP+1
1345 (911) - SWP+1
2021 (1580) - VT+1
8064 (7564) - DP+2
8085 (7584) - SWP+2 {This is the one to shoot for in T14}
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Kalenz » 04 Sep 2012, 09:23

Twintop wrote:Here's the breakpoints in order:

1330 (896) - DP+1
1345 (911) - SWP+1
2021 (1580) - VT+1
8064 (7564) - DP+2
8085 (7584) - SWP+2 {This is the one to shoot for in T14}


hmmm 8085 Haste (^_^) Thank you very much!!
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Crapgeezer » 05 Sep 2012, 05:03

If I interpretate your post correctly, having t14 will make the breakpoints lower.
So with t14 the haste breakpoint for SWP+2 is 7584?
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Re: [H2P] Shadow Haste Break Points

Postby Rubine » 05 Sep 2012, 05:11

Crapgeezer wrote:If I interpretate your post correctly, having t14 will make the breakpoints lower.
So with t14 the haste breakpoint for SWP+2 is 7584?


Actually the number in parenthesis is the goblin haste point.

The number you want to shoot for in T14 gear is 8085 for non-goblins (or 7584 if you are a goblin).
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