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Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Weleroth » 04 Aug 2014, 11:12

So wowprogress.com now ranks people by sim dps as well as by ilvl and various other things.

I logged out in disc gear, went and looked at it, and saw this new feature and went 'ooo simdps'. It simmed my shadow dps, in my disc gear, at 306k. (8k spirit, 3.7k haste, 13k crit, 15k mastery, ilvl 576, 47.7k spellpower, prismatic prism of pride, dysomorphic samophlange).

Then I went and switched to my shadow gear, which uses the same weapon. And my new simdps was.. 307k! (7k hit including spirit, 15k haste, 9k crit, 9k mastery, ilvl 570, 43k spellpower, bindings of immerseus, and toxic totem).

Somehow, I expected the change in stats to actually DO something, since in theory haste is so good for us as shadow and my disc trinkets are.. not good for dps. I thought.

Have we been doing it all wrong? Did the website fail to update? Did the intelligence from an extra 6 ilvls really make THAT much difference?

Just seems.. ridiculous.
Last edited by Weleroth on 04 Aug 2014, 12:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Kilee » 04 Aug 2014, 12:48

I am not sure about disc dps, but I'm pretty sure holy dps isn't too bad right now. I remember Twintop making a post about it somewhere.

As for iLevel, yes it really does make that big of a difference. Although that may not be what is happening in this case. I find people try to downplay iLevel, but given two priests of similar skill level, iLevel will trump every time. Gear (acquisition, strength, etc) is what the game is based around...
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Weleroth » 04 Aug 2014, 12:54

right but this is about shadow dps (same talent/glyph selection) in each case.

i guess i'll go compare intelligence difference and put that up too.

ok, editted in intelligence difference

so:
+4.8k intelligence
+6k mastery
+4k crit

is the same as

+11.3k haste
and two dps trinkets.


somehow, i thought trinkets, major haste breakpoints, and more than 1k extra secondary stats would be worth more than 5k intelligence, but apparently, they're equal.
Last edited by Weleroth on 04 Aug 2014, 13:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Kilee » 04 Aug 2014, 12:59

Oh.... I see what you mean. Yes, of course iLevel trumps "shadow gear".

I've worn lots of "healing items" as part of my shadow set in the past. Whatever is stronger is what is best.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Kilee » 04 Aug 2014, 13:11

Saw your edit.

Generally what I do is take ALL of my gear and sort it by strength, regardless of its intended use. Then I make a set out of it.

It can get tricky if your primary role is healing and you're trying to make a secondary shadow set, because you don't want to remove conflicting enchants and gem sockets, etc... However, in these cases, you can generally still use the PP values of the items to determine which is best.

It really does work like what you are saying. Stats in enough volume can be equally traded out for each other. From a pure math point of view, all stats are just "potential damage output". You could achieve the exact same damage with enough of a single stat, even if it's your worst stat.

(It's annoying that PP values have kind of gone wonky with the various set bonuses. If wearing "healing gear" ends up breaking set bonuses, you'd have to account for that - both the set bonus damage lost plus the changes in stat priorities that would create.)

If shadow is something that you don't play often, I don't know if I would bother too much with it. It really depends on how much use you plan to get out of it and how important to your raid it is that you "max out".

Edit: This topic seems more appropriate for one of the shadow subforums. It doesn't really seem like a true B&C.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Weleroth » 04 Aug 2014, 15:14

Heh, when i originally posted it i was mostly mad at wowprogress. I hadn't even started mathing yet. So it was B&C.

Interesting to see that you can math out roughly how good haste breakpoints are, in terms of PP. Could see that being of use, instead of just giving haste weights, you could give haste a weight, and each breakpoint its own PP value, similar to a set bonus. Of course, that would be totally moot come WoD, so no point now.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Kilee » 04 Aug 2014, 15:53

Yeah it would just be a mild curiosity at this point. In Cata back when I was writing guides, I had mathed out the PP value of all the haste breakpoints. I'm sure that it can still be done now. Actually, those would be easy. The really hard ones would be establishing a PP value for the set bonuses and trinkets. Trinkets in particular... there's just so many damn versions of them - and in the end it's kind of pointless unless you can use that information in a meaningful way - ie to determine when to use a different trinket, or when to trade set bonuses for non-tier pieces.

I don't know if I've seen any concrete posts talking about that sort of thing with the last tier of gear, but it was always one of my biggest interests in theorycrafting. It's easy to find BIS, but I love analysing the "in between" gear. The points where people aren't yet in BIS. Your situation where you have a mix of higher iLevel healing gear and lower iLevel shadow gear is a perfect example of the kind of thing I used to love figuring out.
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Re: Shadow Priest Sim DPS

Postby Shardstorm » 04 Aug 2014, 18:06

WoWProgs Simcraft module is pretty shaky I've found. I think it either runs 100 or 1000 interations, so it can vary a fair bit more than you're used to if you usually run 25,000 cycles.

But more the point, you're giving up ~10% spell power, which I'd say is a reasonable punt for how much the two trinkets would add in Simcraft. Switching your secondaries is just window dressing, yeah haste is better, but the others aren't bad. So you're not appreciably weaker because of it. I'd have thought you'd maybe pick up a little more via 2 set bonus and haste breakpoints, but a result around the same level isn't shocking.

That being said. If you tried to play in healing gear, the timing being way out on casts due to low haste, and much lower proc rates to boot, would probably make you play significantly worse than you would in Shadow gear through sheer awkwardness and unfamiliarity.
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