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Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby Revulva » 18 Sep 2012, 09:04

Ok, I fixed the calculations for Spirit Shell in the spreadsheet. I created an input area on the "Special Calcs" sheet that lets you pick a breakdown of spells used during SS as well as the percentage of max SS uptime you achieve in the fight. I am optimistically assuming that you would only cast Heal, FH, GH, or PoH during SS, and that you would cast back-to-back for the whole duration.

I was able to calculate some thresholds of spell usage where Mastery becomes more valuable than Crit for Heal/FH/GH/PoH. What I mean is, lets say you cast the spell 100 times. For Mastery to be stronger than Crit, you will need to cast it at least X times while SS is active.

Heal: 100%+ (Crit > Mastery always)
Flash Heal: 60%
Greater Heal: 100%+ (Crit > Mastery always)
Prayer of Healing: 25%*

*This assumes you hit 5 targets every time. The number goes up if you hit less targets.

So, as I have mentioned before, The relative value of stats can change dramatically for Discipline based on how you use your spells.

I tried creating a theoretical breakdown of spells, just to see how it would turn out. A "problem" I am having with the model is that the Spirit Shell calculation is extremely optimistic. Lets say you used Flash Heal 10 times and Prayer of Healing 15 times in a 5 minute fight... right now my calculation would assume that you only used those spells with Spirit Shell up, since that would have been possible. Thinking to myself... I know that I would use those spells at other times during the fight, at least once in a while. So, I also implemented a max percentage of the spell usage to allow during Spirit Shell.

This should give the necessary flexibility to calculate when Mastery will become stronger than Crit, and vice versa.

So, some notes on how to decide if, based on your spell usage, Mastery or Crit is stronger:
1.) How often do you use Flash Heal, and, how often is that done without Spirit Shell active? You need to limit your usage of this spell outside of SS to make Mastery more effective than Crit.
2.) How often do you use Prayer of Healing? Mastery is good for this spell. As long as you are using it about 25% of the time with Spirit Shell, Mastery will give you better throughput than Crit.
3.) Mastery is awesome for PW:Shield. The more you use PW:Shield, the better a stat it is.
4.) Mastery is weak for Heal, GH, Renew, PoM, Penance, level 90 Talents. If you aren't using PW:Shield, Flash Heal (with SS), and PoH for 60% or more of your spells (not total healing, this is spell usage), Mastery is going to even out or fall behind Crit and Haste.
5.) Divine Aegis scales better with Crit than with Mastery.

Lots of interesting stuff I'm finding as I refine these calculations. I will be interested to see what is actually possible in different situations, based on the limited Mana. Mastery is very effective for PW:Shield, FH, and PoH - which are all costly spells. Will we have the mana to keep up a spell usage pattern that allows those to make up well more than half of our spell usage? I can't answer that yet, since I don't have a level 90 disc. priest on beta.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby LordMonkfish » 18 Sep 2012, 10:28

Thanks for the speedy work, I look forward to playing with the spreadsheet when I get the chance.

I used your spreadsheet throughout Firelands and enjoyed the way it takes your spell usage into account first, and then gives you stat weights - which I feel works very well for healers.

At the moment, when I'm using spirit shell (SS), it's mostly as a raid-healing CD and I'll more or less cast Prayer of Healing for 100% of the CD's uptime. I'll simply pop SS and rotate casts of PoH on each raid group, perhaps throwing 1 Greater Heal on the tank for good measure.

I use a atonement and PoH heavy "rotation" as disc, typically (of course it can vary). Keep PW:S on tanks at all times and any player who will take a predictable and significant amount of damage of single-target damage (think the pounce the Shannox dogs did).

Anytime I am not casting PoH I am casting Holy Fire & Penance on CD with smite in between, popping SS prior to raid damage and proceed to coat the raid with it. I'm interested to see whether this style of healing benefits mastery due to the high PoH usage, or whether my similarly high atonement usage will change things up.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby Revulva » 18 Sep 2012, 11:15

I think I need to add in Holy Fire, I still only have Smite, I believe. I'll add that in sometime today.

I'm glad at least a couple folks are making use of the spreadsheet ;) I'll probably have to rely on using information from other people's parses in MoP... I think I'll be playing a Warlock, at least to start. Don't tell anyone...
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby LordMonkfish » 18 Sep 2012, 12:23

If you add Holy Fire, remember to add an option for a glyphed version (removes the cast time)!

I'll be happy to provide parses if it'll help the work you're doing - this sort of spreadsheet helps support different styles of play.

I remember playing with different Holy playstyles in a previous version of the spreadsheet and was fascinated by how crit and haste overtook each other in different situations.

Shame to lose you as a priest, but warlocks are looking great it has to be said. I really enjoy the changes to shadow and may be going shadow as a main spec for the first time in my raiding career, but the pull of casual theorycrafting (or at least, experimenting on the work others have done) for healing priests brings me back into a healing frame of mind!
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby Revulva » 19 Sep 2012, 06:09

I have implemented Holy Fire and fixed up a few small bugs with Divine Aegis and Spirit Shell calcs (small enough that results weren't affected).

I must say... Discipline Priests, from a stat priority theorycraft perspective, are one of the best designed and most interesting specs in the game. There is no garbage stat. You can play the class with multiple healing patterns and styles, each favoring different stats. This is the kind of design that I would love to see in every class/spec in the game.

Holy's mastery doesn't really have a chance for this type of interesting interaction. If they buffed it, it would be a clear winner. There isn't a way to get the interesting balance/interaction that Disc. has on a mastery that is just a flat healing increase, more or less. Besides being theoretically weak, Holy mastery is "slop healing" that doesn't affect actual spell usage. If you can't tell, I'm not a huge fan of the design of Echo of Light ;) I like the design of the spec, from a play perspective, just not the mastery.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby temp123456 » 09 Oct 2012, 14:15

Bang, everyone is a disc priest now :D
Holy: Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery
Crit vs. Mastery. i would sooo like to see you guys fight this one out!! ;)
(I was running with Revulva's sheet numbers in Cata, with frequent and very good ranking numbers, but still cant shake those "that crit priest is retarded" looks in the back of my mind, the feeling to not really "fit in with the rest")
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby derevka » 10 Oct 2012, 04:00

First... this is not a 'fight this one out'; that is not what this forum is about. We've always been about.

As I stated before the biggest issue I have with these statweights is the complete disregard for truly how potent spirit shell is. Look at the logs out there-- playing on beta and raiding on Beta made that clear, which is why I suggested so.

Spirit Shell and Barrier are *the* reason you bring a Disc Priest to a raid. My concerns with Revulva's math is that it is dismissing the spell as less relevant b/c of its low uptime is dangerous, particularly when its accounting for such a large chunk of the raw healing the priest can do.

Now are any of the stats 'bad' per say... no not exceptionally, but Mastery is most certainly something Discs will want to prioritize.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby temp123456 » 10 Oct 2012, 05:19

aaaaaw, why so serious, notice the winking smiley at the end of the sentence please :)
And i was asking about holy. (25 man)
On fights, especially on progress raids, pulling up big raid damages quickly!!! before anyone dies from random damage splashes, felt easier with crit than mastery.
So i imagined : crit: more burst kind of healing , mastery: more lazy slower backround healing.
On the whole encounter, mastery may give you a bit better theorycrafting numbers alltogether, but if people start to hit the bucket during the bigger aoe damage phases, with us, being one of the dedicated raidhealer, i would feel sad to the bone.

i cant give you numbers, i am not a theorycrafter, i play by guts.
But i respect the people of this forum, so it does not hurt to ask for advices.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby Woaden » 10 Oct 2012, 05:43

For Holy the only problem with Crit is that you can't 'rely' on it. What I can count on is that if someone gets brought low they'll more than likely have a couple of HoTs already on them allowing for the needed reaction time to get them back into a safe zone of health.

Personally though I'm a more Renew style Holy Priest rarely straying outside of instants.
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Re: Stat Weights for MoP Level 90

Postby Tsilyi » 20 Oct 2012, 14:39

Woaden wrote:Personally though I'm a more Renew style Holy Priest


how very t10 of you!
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