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[H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (9/7/13)

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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Twintop » 25 Jan 2013, 10:42

Arlee wrote:I also need to add something about how mastery ticks can miss if you are under hit cap. Been so busy lately a lot of things have fallen by the wayside.


Ticks never miss. Hit is determined by the application of the spell only. Because Mastery ticks behave exactly like DoT ticks (except procing another Mastery tick), a Mastery tick won't miss.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Arlee » 25 Jan 2013, 10:58

Twintop wrote:
Arlee wrote:I also need to add something about how mastery ticks can miss if you are under hit cap. Been so busy lately a lot of things have fallen by the wayside.


Ticks never miss. Hit is determined by the application of the spell only. Because Mastery ticks behave exactly like DoT ticks (except procing another Mastery tick), a Mastery tick won't miss.


Except for when I showed you awhile back looking at my logs there was a mastery proc that missed.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Twintop » 25 Jan 2013, 11:00

Arlee wrote:
Twintop wrote:Ticks never miss. Hit is determined by the application of the spell only. Because Mastery ticks behave exactly like DoT ticks (except procing another Mastery tick), a Mastery tick won't miss.


Except for when I showed you awhile back looking at my logs there was a mastery proc that missed.


I'm still not confident that that is what was actually happening, though, since I haven't seen any other logs where Mastery procs miss.

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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby aica » 25 Jan 2013, 11:03

Mastery procs aren't ticks, though. They're direct damage, so the "ticks can't miss" argument doesn't work here.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Arlee » 25 Jan 2013, 11:08

WTB people running around under hitcap testing for me, will pay in cookies!

Also Nixx posted here saying why he thinks mastery might behave this way: viewtopic.php?p=22856#p22856

I think he is basically saying that a mastery proc isn't treated exactly like a tick from an already cast dot, it's treated as if it's own little one tick dot (I know the idea of a one tick dot is a bit absurd) where when it happens the chance for it to hit/miss and crit/or not are figured out for it.

So basically the process is does a proc happen, does it hit, does it crit. I could see this fitting in with what GC said awhile ago though what he said could definitely be seen to confirm the way myself and Twin interpreted it (basically that a mastery proc shouldn't have the chance to miss).

@Acia - the reason for confusion on it is at some point GC said mastery procs behave exactly like regular ticks (can't remember exact wording but it was pretty much that). If they behave exactly like ticks, then one would think they shouldn't have a chance to miss.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Twintop » 25 Jan 2013, 11:14

Arlee wrote:WTB people running around under hitcap testing for me, will pay in cookies!

Also Nixx posted here saying why he thinks mastery might behave this way: viewtopic.php?p=22856#p22856

I think he is basically saying that a mastery proc isn't treated exactly like a tick from an already cast dot, it's treated as if it's own little one tick dot (I know the idea of a one tick dot is a bit absurd) where when it happens the chance for it to hit/miss and crit/or not are figured out for it.

So basically the process is does a proc happen, does it hit, does it crit. I could see this fitting in with what GC said awhile ago though what he said could definitely be seen to confirm the way myself and Twin interpreted it (basically that a mastery proc shouldn't have the chance to miss).

@Acia - the reason for confusion on it is at some point GC said mastery procs behave exactly like regular ticks (can't remember exact wording but it was pretty much that). If they behave exactly like ticks, then one would think they shouldn't have a chance to miss.


This may be a question for GC. I'll get naked (giggity) and DoT up a bunch of target dummies for logging.

Random though: since the on-hit of SWP can proc Mastery, could it be that the Mastery proc is being determined before the on-hit is determined, and if the on-hit of SWP misses then the Mastery on-hit misses as well? Or maybe the on-hit Mastery proc can miss? That might explain all of this funnybusiness since the on-hit is technically NOT a tick.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby aica » 25 Jan 2013, 11:17

Fair enough.

However, they're recorded completely differently in the combat log.

Just look at this log:
[You] cast [Mind Flay] [Training Dummy].
[Your] [Mind Flay] damaged [Training Dummy] 1 Shadow. (14245 Overkill)
[Your] [Mind Flay] damaged [Training Dummy] 1 Shadow. (14244 Overkill)
[Your] [Mind Flay] hit [Training Dummy] 1 Shadow. (15957 Overkill)
[Your] [Mind Flay] damaged [Training Dummy] 1 Shadow. (14245 Overkill)
I bet you can find out which one is the mastery proc.

GC saying that they behave exactly like normal ticks is what caused the whole "infinite mastery proc" discussion. Obviously they don't behave exactly like actual tics. I would bet quite a bit that they don't have a chance of proccing Light of the Cosmos, either.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby aica » 25 Jan 2013, 11:18

Twintop wrote:Random though: since the on-hit of SWP can proc Mastery, could it be that the Mastery proc is being determined before the on-hit is determined, and if the on-hit of SWP misses then the Mastery on-hit misses as well? Or maybe the on-hit Mastery proc can miss? That might explain all of this funnybusiness since the on-hit is technically NOT a tick.


I'd presume that it on-hit misses, that the mastery doesn't get a chance to proc, because there is no tick in the first place. However, if SW:P does hit, then mastery still has a chance to miss.

I can test this as well.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby aica » 25 Jan 2013, 11:29

After testing, mastery procs can definitely miss. Don't know about the mastery proc on application, but since application and dot tick are two completely separate instances, I don't see how the mastery proc is tied to the application hit/miss.
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Re: [H2P] MoP Hit Cap FAQ (8/29/12)

Postby Twintop » 25 Jan 2013, 11:33

aica wrote:After testing, mastery procs can definitely miss. Don't know about the mastery proc on application, but since application and dot tick are two completely separate instances, I don't see how the mastery proc is tied to the application hit/miss.


If this is case, it seems a question to GC as to whether this is a bug or not is in order. I'll tweet at him.
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