Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby raskolnikovv » 12 Jan 2014, 10:30

So, I've started this topic because after searching a lot for this information I couldn't come to a comfortable conclusion regarding the optimal secondary stat to aim for, thinking of throughput, as a disc priest with higher ilvl gear.

So, to begin with my priest is called Raskolnikovv at Azralon-US (link to armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... ovv/simple ) and I'm at around 572-575 ilvl gear. I found that at this gear lvl, int doesn't seem to add much to healing, as "secondary" stats do. The thing is, which stats will really add more throughput?

Many things that need consideration come to my mind, and I will try to enumerate them:

1- gems will give double "secondary" stats, which is obvious;
2- I'm currently wearing 4p and aiming at around 3k haste to try to grab my 5th PoH under SS, but this restricts my gear AND influences my playing because of essentially 2 issues:
- 4p will give us spirit and mastery, AND cannot be warforged. Warforged gear adds more secondary stats, to a point that they MIGHT be more valuable than the 4p bonus, which is something that I want to "investigate". I have for example 4 unequiped heroic warforged items (haste/mastery legs, spirit/crit head, spirit/crit gloves, spirit/haste bracers) plus the spirit/crit shoulder (equipped)...
- the added 10% haste under SS from 4p is sometimes misleading, because even if you prepare correctly for it (positioning yourself, using BT, macroing SS with mouseover PoH, etc) many of the times the SS buff wears off some miliseconds before the fifth PoH lands, which makes all the effort to use 4p useless (I mean, if other heroic warforged gear could give better heal output during the whole fight, is it worth going for 3k haste and "losing" the extra bonus from warforged gear to just sometimes be unable to use 5 casts???)
- in fights that can interrupt you or require that you move (when I comd to think of it, almost every fight in SoO will), the same issue applies
3- when reading about crit and mastery, of course it depends on which spells you use more, but I haven't found any numerical correlations that would do a better output;
4- im probably using healcalc wrong, especially because i have no mouse at the moment so my mousing over capability with a tablet is very poor, and also im not very sure if I configured things correctly, but it seems HASTE would increase my heals more than mastery and both would increase my heals more than crit... I then remembered some time back at Cata when haste would really be the best output but wouldnt be sought after because of mana concerns....

So, in the end, what I want to investigate and know is: which stats would give me a better OUTPUT, no matter what? Is there any SPECIFIC numeric values we should get, or SPECIFIC numeric relation between mastery/crit/haste? Is going after haste good for discs at this gearlvl? (remember that after 7k haste you dont need 4p to get 5 PoHs under SS).
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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby Zosyn » 12 Jan 2014, 12:06


1. I personally go for crit as my main throughput stat with mastery being my second choice. If you look me up you will see my mastery is higher than my crit but that is because of gear.

2. I do not really like the 4 set to much for disc, with the right off pieces you can drop a lot of extra spirit and gain a lot more crit/mastery. Level 90 talents are REALLY STRONG with high crit, even to the point that using them on CD with 100% overhealing can be extremely beneficial.

3. To answer your question, I personally believe crit/mastery give the best throughput when it is needed the most. I have not used a haste build so I cannot comment to much on the differences between the two. I would not gem/gear/reforge to haste for another SS cast because it would probably require you to sacrifice to much crit/mastery.

PS: If you are looking to increase your throuhput, try replacing smite with PoH on fights where you can PoH 3+ people. With the amount of crit we can reach with procs/AA and just gear alone it adds a lot more DA healing than smite does. Be warned, this is heavier on mana so you will need to be careful.

I hope this answered some of your thoughts without to much rambling :)

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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby Talho » 13 Jan 2014, 02:13

I wouldn't ponder too much about crit or mastery being the best stat. Going for crit is probably always the right choice because most gear has mastery on it, and because of this mastery is the highest stat for every high ilvl priest.

As far as I know crit should be slightly higher then mastery, but with our 2tier bonus, it's very hard to calculate. But again, don't ponder over it, as long as crit and mastery are very close, the difference is _very very_ minimal in througput.

About the 4tier bonus, I think it generally sucks and that warforged is much better. Another problem it has is that all tier items have mastery. Which makes your mastery way higher then your crit.
The only encounter I see it being decent on is heroic garrosh. I'll have to do some testing when I get my 4th piece.
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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby raskolnikovv » 18 Jan 2014, 05:15


I´ve been looking at HealCalc and I think I know now what was bothering me. Correct me if I'm wrong please...
Haste is the best stat regarding HPS to every single spell I check, even PW:S, which wouldn't make sense at a first glance. But then, HPS is not the same thing as average heal per spell. Which means that when I look at HPS I'm looking at a constant casting ratio, so if you take PW:S for example more haste means reducing the GCD and casting it faster (in a non-stop manner) which is NOT what we do in real raid healing. In other words, haste would indeed increase my HPS if I could keep spamming every spell I have in a non-stop manner, and that would probably be impossible, since we adjust the spells we cast to the fights, the moments, the needs, our mana, etc.
When I look at AVERAGE HEAL, then haste is always the worst stat, because after all you're not interested in healing per time but only in total healing (so haste wouldn't make a difference to most of discipline priest spells, since we do not have to worry with healing over time haste breakpoints).
That's why when I first looked at healcalc I was impressed with haste. I haven't tested, but it's pobably not possible to go after haste and keep casting our spells without a break because that would really bring us oom very fast (not to mention that the added benefit of some DAs from PoH when the raid is full hp is a questionable way of spending mana). Still, even when making rotations that could try to represent what I do in regular 25H raiding haste is still ahead of crit and mastery, regardless of having 2p, 4p bonus or no set bonus at all.
I´m tempted to trying a build with some more haste, only 2p bonus, and check if it would change overall healing output. Also, I would like to ask for some feedback from Adinne, Derevka, Ashleycakez and other users if possible.
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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby Valaria » 18 Jan 2014, 07:03

The main problem with haste in HealCalc is that it doesn't account for spell cooldowns. When you save 0.5 seconds cast time on your 40 second CD Halo you aren't getting 50% more halo, but merely 0.5sec smite time.

Also haste slightly increases the amount of spirit you likely want, especially if there is Prayer of Healing spamm in a fight. That said some haste is pretty solid for pure atonement throughput.

In 25 man going for more crit compared to mastery than is "optimal" also makes sense, due to the expected overheal of Halo especially.
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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby derevka » 18 Jan 2014, 08:39

You need to use the rotations area then. Use that section for what rotations YOU use in a raid. Don't jut stare at a spell by spell impact without Practical application.
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Re: Disc stats priority with higher ilvl gear

Postby Adinne » 18 Jan 2014, 09:07

For a class that heavily relies on its CDs, like disc, haste is indeed not going to be very useful as it just increases the number of filler spells you can cast, which is a tiny part of our healing. But there's no easy way for HealCalc to account for that really. The thing I've wanted to do is improve the rotations section to allow you to set things up so as to tell it "fill the rest with however many Smites you can". Unfortunately I don't have the time to do that at the moment.

So bottom line is that you need to interpret the results from HealCalc, and in this case that interpretation means that Haste is not all that good after all, as so much of out healing comes from spells with CD.
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