< /br>< /br>< /br>

Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby davesignal » 12 Jul 2014, 11:18

Blackmorgrim wrote:Right now, it's basically a DPS loss to take the talent, merely from the pure fact that you almost remove DP from your rotation, and thus limit your benefit from SoD, remove the benefit from Insanity, and pretty much are left with Mindbender in lvl 45 talents. For lvl 75 talents you pretty much want PI or DI to get those VEnts rolling asap.


Yeah, see, this I don't get. From my (relatively short) experience with it last night (side note: got into beta, hooray!), I would not characterize DP as 'almost removed' from my rotation. I ended up casting what seemed to be two DPs for every VEnt, which felt like a pretty good ratio.

Add more haste into the equation-- or DI/PI, I was using Twist just to completely take that tier out of the equation-- and that number will only go up.
User avatar
davesignal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 25 Oct 2012, 08:35

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Kidmagic01 » 12 Jul 2014, 13:53

I see a lot of good ideas coming from people here and changes that might help priests. Is there someone from this site who relays all the ideas and changes needed to the devs to see how they play out? Or is it just a lot of hoping that they will do something like it?
User avatar
Kidmagic01
Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 05 Mar 2013, 00:29

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Rubine » 12 Jul 2014, 15:51

Kidmagic01 wrote:I see a lot of good ideas coming from people here and changes that might help priests. Is there someone from this site who relays all the ideas and changes needed to the devs to see how they play out? Or is it just a lot of hoping that they will do something like it?

I know Blizzard usually has eyes on all of the fan sites so they probably see posts here anyway. On top of that, I know the Blizz community team does tend to have lines of communication open with fan site leaders/admins.

I also know that some of the people here who post fantastic ideas also post their ideas on the beta suggestion boards.

But ultimately it's down to hoping that Blizzard sees potential issues and addresses them in some way, as even if the community comes up with great ideas, Blizz may not agree they are good ideas (or may not even agree there are issues that need fixing, which is always the worst)
Rubine#1472
Image
User avatar
Rubine
Donor
 
Posts: 761
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 03:25
Location: Maryland

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Blackmorgrim » 12 Jul 2014, 17:08

davesignal wrote:Yeah, see, this I don't get. From my (relatively short) experience with it last night (side note: got into beta, hooray!), I would not characterize DP as 'almost removed' from my rotation. I ended up casting what seemed to be two DPs for every VEnt, which felt like a pretty good ratio.

Add more haste into the equation-- or DI/PI, I was using Twist just to completely take that tier out of the equation-- and that number will only go up.


The thing about this is that I'm more looking at the talent as being meant for multitarget, and once you get up to two or more targets, DP is essentially removed from the rotation. DP is still there in a single target rotation, however, just by removing 6 DPs from the rotation, over the course of a 6 minute fight, you've pretty much removed any benefit from taking VEnt over no lvl 100 talent plus Insanity or SoD.
My Twitter Feed: FlayerInTheMist

Image
***Visit me over in Vitaris!***
Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)

"People are not persuaded by what we say but rather by what they understand." - Fortune cookie
User avatar
Blackmorgrim
Moderator
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 16:28
Location: Where else? In the shadows.

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby davesignal » 12 Jul 2014, 23:04

Blackmorgrim wrote:
davesignal wrote:Yeah, see, this I don't get. From my (relatively short) experience with it last night (side note: got into beta, hooray!), I would not characterize DP as 'almost removed' from my rotation. I ended up casting what seemed to be two DPs for every VEnt, which felt like a pretty good ratio.

Add more haste into the equation-- or DI/PI, I was using Twist just to completely take that tier out of the equation-- and that number will only go up.


The thing about this is that I'm more looking at the talent as being meant for multitarget, and once you get up to two or more targets, DP is essentially removed from the rotation. DP is still there in a single target rotation, however, just by removing 6 DPs from the rotation, over the course of a 6 minute fight, you've pretty much removed any benefit from taking VEnt over no lvl 100 talent plus Insanity or SoD.


I honestly don't get how you could look at Void Entropy and think 'multitarget talent'. For me, I look at Auspicious Spirits and see that-- you know, the talent that operates directly with one of our best spells in a multi-target situation?

Auspicious Spirits is almost glaringly the talent to take for multi-target fights, in my opinion.

Now, Void Entropy? Void Entropy seems like it would be the best talent to take on a fight with movement. Having our DOTs tick away on a target is pretty much the only movement DPS we have outside of procs (which are handy, but unreliable). Having another DOT ticking away, one that requires relatively little maintenance to keep up (just one GCD every minute) seems like it would be pretty handy.

Clarity of Power, of course, is the talent you take if you want to pretend you're a Destro Warlock.
User avatar
davesignal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 25 Oct 2012, 08:35

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Blackmorgrim » 13 Jul 2014, 06:37

When VEnt was first introduced, Celestalon said it was created with Council fights in mind. Based on that statement, that's how I've been giving my feedback. Yes, there's a difference between how things are actually working, and how things were intended to work. I'd totally agree that AS is exceptional in multitarget, as well as mobility, even moreso than VEnt. If there were any talent that you could build around and never change... I'd personally say its AS. ATM it seems to have the best scaling, and could prove even stronger than CoP in many scenarios, provided you have high crit.

However, right now, I think even CoP has stronger multitarget than VEnt. Given its high synergy with SoD, you can easily drop VT on multiple targets, and wail away at your main target with rapid fire MS between your MBs and DPs. Although, CoP has an upper ceiling here.

AS has an upper ceiling as well, except there, it means that your entire rotation is refreshing DoTs, MB, and DP (+SWD in execute).
My Twitter Feed: FlayerInTheMist

Image
***Visit me over in Vitaris!***
Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)

"People are not persuaded by what we say but rather by what they understand." - Fortune cookie
User avatar
Blackmorgrim
Moderator
 
Posts: 1289
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 16:28
Location: Where else? In the shadows.

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Hygeia » 14 Jul 2014, 14:17

I'm in the beta, but I still have two questions about mechanics:

- Devouring Plague duration being shorter with haste was discussed earlier but I can't find it, and this was balanced out by the fact that Mind Blast is reduced by haste, too, right? But even so, at 50% haste you can only get like a channel and a half of MFI off before it runs out. Isn't that overall a loss? I'm not understanding the way this is supposed to work or what they intend it to be.

- I keep seeing Celestalon and people on twitter refer to Devouring Plague as an "Ignite Mechanic" but DP isn't and has never been anything like Ignite? What is the definition of "Ignite Mechanic"? Isn't Ignite a dot mages put on a target when they crit, and its damage starts out high and then slowly gets reduced during the duration of the dot unless they keep adding more to it by continually critting? How is that anything like Devouring Plague?
User avatar
Hygeia
Member
 
Posts: 685
Joined: 11 Jul 2011, 15:52
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Twintop » 14 Jul 2014, 14:31

Hygeia wrote:I'm in the beta, but I still have two questions about mechanics:

- Devouring Plague duration being shorter with haste was discussed earlier but I can't find it, and this was balanced out by the fact that Mind Blast is reduced by haste, too, right? But even so, at 50% haste you can only get like a channel and a half of MFI off before it runs out. Isn't that overall a loss? I'm not understanding the way this is supposed to work or what they intend it to be.


DP is always 4 GCDs in length (unless it multistrikes, then it is longer by 0.533sec). That means if you cast DP then MFI you have a max of 10 ticks of MFI during DP's duration + chaining.

Hygeia wrote:- I keep seeing Celestalon and people on twitter refer to Devouring Plague as an "Ignite Mechanic" but DP isn't and has never been anything like Ignite? What is the definition of "Ignite Mechanic"? Isn't Ignite a dot mages put on a target when they crit, and its damage starts out high and then slowly gets reduced during the duration of the dot unless they keep adding more to it by continually critting? How is that anything like Devouring Plague?


When you reapply DP (or it multistrikes) you don't lose any of the damage that the ticks you clipped would have done. Example, DP ticks for 100 per tick and I recast DP when it has 3 ticks left. That 300 damage is distributed over the 7 ticks that DP is now going to do.

EDIT / TLDR: When we say "Ignite Mechanic" we mean the last part of the Fire Mage mastery (Ignite) (the bolded part):

Your target burns for an additional 12% over 4 sec of the total direct damage caused by your Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, Flamestrike, and their multistrikes. If this effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Ignite.
User avatar
Twintop
Assistant Administrator
 
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07 Feb 2011, 12:50
Location: Feeding Blowtorch

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby davesignal » 14 Jul 2014, 15:07

Posting on the run, so I can't double check myself, but: that 10 tick figure takes into account that only three of those four GCDs are usable?
User avatar
davesignal
Member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: 25 Oct 2012, 08:35

Re: Ask A Tester (Alpha...errr BETA)!

Postby Hygeia » 14 Jul 2014, 16:20

Twintop wrote:
Hygeia wrote:I'm in the beta, but I still have two questions about mechanics:

- Devouring Plague duration being shorter with haste was discussed earlier but I can't find it, and this was balanced out by the fact that Mind Blast is reduced by haste, too, right? But even so, at 50% haste you can only get like a channel and a half of MFI off before it runs out. Isn't that overall a loss? I'm not understanding the way this is supposed to work or what they intend it to be.


DP is always 4 GCDs in length (unless it multistrikes, then it is longer by 0.533sec). That means if you cast DP then MFI you have a max of 10 ticks of MFI during DP's duration + chaining.


I'm assuming the math on it is the same as live and that it's not really a loss, then? Math is not my strong suit but playing it, it just feels really quick and the MFI window is really short (6 seconds live vs. 4 seconds Beta).

Twintop wrote:
Hygeia wrote:- I keep seeing Celestalon and people on twitter refer to Devouring Plague as an "Ignite Mechanic" but DP isn't and has never been anything like Ignite? What is the definition of "Ignite Mechanic"? Isn't Ignite a dot mages put on a target when they crit, and its damage starts out high and then slowly gets reduced during the duration of the dot unless they keep adding more to it by continually critting? How is that anything like Devouring Plague?


When you reapply DP (or it multistrikes) you don't lose any of the damage that the ticks you clipped would have done. Example, DP ticks for 100 per tick and I recast DP when it has 3 ticks left. That 300 damage is distributed over the 7 ticks that DP is now going to do.

EDIT / TLDR: When we say "Ignite Mechanic" we mean the last part of the Fire Mage mastery (Ignite) (the bolded part):

Your target burns for an additional 12% over 4 sec of the total direct damage caused by your Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, Flamestrike, and their multistrikes. If this effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Ignite.


That makes sense, I think I'm confusing Pandemic and Ignite. The fundamental difference between Pandemic and Ignite is that Pandemic adds ticks to the dot and Ignite adds damage to the dot?
User avatar
Hygeia
Member
 
Posts: 685
Joined: 11 Jul 2011, 15:52
Location: New Jersey, USA


Return to Warlords of Draenor Beta



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest