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2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby barzololxd » 21 Sep 2013, 08:31

recently i am trying to figure out while using "FDCL-TOF" using mind sear on =>2 targets is better than solo mind flay? (2p t16)
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Woaden » 21 Sep 2013, 10:12

Multiple Targets:
Many of the encounters we are seeing have many different mobs in them which is of course freaking awesome for us! I would suggest that you take the following as guidelines but you should use your own judgement and apply them to the reality of your situation and your capabilities.

If you're looking at 2-4 long lived mobs (including boss) you will want to keep both VT and SW:P up on them, while still doing your normal single target priorities.

For 5 long lived mobs you want to VT and SW:P all of them and use MS as filler.

More than 5 you're just spamming MS for maximum damage. NOTE: When MS spamming you will run yourself oom if you're not throwing out / maintaining a few VTs. So while your damage will be lowered slightly by throwing out VTs that damage loss is nothing compared to ooming and doing ZERO DPS.

For council style fights where you have ~4 targets with high health taking full damage: DoT them all. Anytime you can DoT the world and have them last their full duration that's what you're doing. DoT ALL the things. This takes some reflexes, practice and quick judgement but it's huge.

On Mind Sear - It's best to use a tank as your target so that you're more likely to hit all the mobs and so that you won't have to change targets and recast if you didn't select the longest lived mob.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby barzololxd » 21 Sep 2013, 10:17

you misunderstood the point actually, while keeping swp and vt up on 2 target, if u dont have insanity mind searing them averally doing more damage than solo mind flay, cause of mastery proc and 2 set bonuses mind sear doubles the chance and so on, i just need someone to prove this with some simcraft etc

- i am aware of old school aoe guides, but ms on 5 mobs or more is so old with recent item lvl -
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Woaden » 21 Sep 2013, 10:26

So old? This is the current general thresholds for multi-target damage as figured by Twintop in the 5.4 Sims.

I should mention that the T16 2 + 4pc were used for those Sims.

Nothing wrong with trying to look at quirky scenarios and methods to get that extra bit of DPS but in this instance there's just nothing to it.

Sorry.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Kaesebrezen » 21 Sep 2013, 11:27

barzololxd wrote:i just need someone to prove this with some simcraft
There's no need for simcraft to prove it:

Mindflay per Tick: 1049 + 50% SP
Mindsear per Tick: 303 + 30% SP
MS on 2 per Tick: 606 + 60% SP

As the basedamage is neglectable: 60% SP > 50% SP.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Twintop » 21 Sep 2013, 13:02

Kaesebrezen wrote:
barzololxd wrote:i just need someone to prove this with some simcraft
There's no need for simcraft to prove it:

Mindflay per Tick: 1049 + 50% SP
Mindsear per Tick: 303 + 30% SP
MS on 2 per Tick: 606 + 60% SP

As the basedamage is neglectable: 60% SP > 50% SP.


This is correct. Two (non-DPS) things to keep in mind:

1) Mind Sear costs 3x the mana as Mind Flay (though it does last 167% the length). If you're casting Mind Sear frequently with targets that you don't/can't get VT rolling on (for mana regen) and/or if you frequently use it as a filler spell instead of Mind Flay and don't do the full duration, it could cause mana issues.

2) You lose out on either the slowing effect from Mind Flay or the runspeed bonus from Glyph of Mind Flay.

With this all being said, if you're at ~60k SP (on average, raid buffed) this is going to be an ~18% DPS increase over Mind Flay in this specific case.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Koilie » 03 Oct 2013, 06:24

Pretty much started doing this as soon as they removed the bonus effects completely from mind flay. Fiend CD reduction and before that Pain refreshing.

Reactions of people that notice can be funny when you mind sear 2 things.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Cerbz » 19 Feb 2014, 23:53

I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but why does MF SP% say 150% on Wowhead but it's really 50%? Mind Sear on Wowhead does say 30% though.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Valaria » 20 Feb 2014, 06:03

Mindflay is for an entire channel off 3 ticks, Mindsear is already per tick.
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Re: 2 target mind sear or mind flay with 2p t16

Postby Cerbz » 21 Feb 2014, 11:34

Makes sense.
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