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Disc healing partners

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Disc healing partners

Postby BraindG » 19 Apr 2014, 03:56

HI all,

Back again, after receiving some gear i switched over to Disc from Haste spec Holy.

This week was my first time doing HC as Disc and I have a couple questions, which are both linked i suppose.

1. Stay on bubbles or heal?

Background: Leading up to swapping from Holy to Disc i spoke to a number of people, read all the guides, watching videos on YouTube etc. Maybe i missed this in those guides however, 2 separate Disc priests told me never to heal, instead keep up atonement, barrier when needed and and ofc SS as close to CD as possible - Idea being to let your Partner pick up the slack and heal ppl. Coming from a Holy background this is quite alien lol, the urge to heal is massive..

Question: Is this Atonement only approach applicable to all bosses or only a few? - bear in mind i understand the fights and know when to prepare the raid with shields.

2. Who are our best healing partners and why?

Background: This is linked with the above question. The first 3 bosses we attempted with me and a druid, it was super hard and we had more than normal wipes - granted, there's a little issue my side, i.e. trying to not heal, keep up atonement, remembering my all new key bindings and TMW setup. Anyways, to my point, we got to Norushen and wiped about 7 times, ppl were getting a little annoyed and it was getting late,

At this point our raid leader asked our Resto Shaman to step in and replace the Druid - bearing in mind I was doing exactly the same thing (at least on attempt 7 and final attempt) all of a sudden everything starting working and we downed the boss. During the Kill fight it just felt right, ppl's healths were more often than not closer to full than low (unlike with druid) and things just felt right.

Logs: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J2M ... pe=healing

Question: So, are there better than other partners for Disc, if so why?

Thanks for your time.
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby Aevi » 19 Apr 2014, 04:42

I wouldn't say "never" heal. Whilst it's true Atonement is amazing in 10 man especially, you'll want to do more than that outside of 90 talents, SS, PW:S, etc.

First of all I noticed your PW:S usage is VERY low, to the point you ended up casting more Renews than you did PW:S. From that log I can only see 5 PW:S uses, when really you want 5+ per minute (Rapture) + depending on what fight you can choose to get about 3 PW:S out during your 4 second free-cast window thanks to the Meta Gem.
Renew is sort of a no-go for Disc, some would argue otherwise, but it's so low on our priority list and I'd only consider using it in extreme movement circumstances depending on what was available to me.

On a fight like Norushen I tend to only Atonement to get my Evangelism stacks up so I can Archangel on CD, then I'll be casting Prayer of Healing on both groups since that fight is constant ticking damage with the odd spike. As well as PW:S when I see fit and to use up my Rapture.

I see you only cast Prayer of Mending twice, too. Whilst PoM isn't exactly great for Disc, it's still decent healing for 1 GCD every 10 seconds, especially on a fight like Norushen.

You'll eventually learn when to switch between Atonement and Prayer of Healing, but Atonement is usually my go-to cast in 10 man, it just depends on the situation.


As for healing partners- My team has Holy Paladin and MW Monk as Main Healers then I'll be the Main OS Healer when needed and have Ele Shaman and Balance Druid that can both switch to Resto depending on if we need them if Main Healers are away.

I'd say that Holy Paladin is my favourite to heal with, between us there is just so many Absorbs that you hardly notice some of the mechanics. Then I'd rank it Shaman > Monk > Druid. Just personal preference for me. But none are particularly bad and depends on fight. For Norushen, Shaman are amazing if your team is stacking for most of the fight due to Healing Rain and Chain Heal, etc.


TL;DR - Use PW:S More, Renew is debatable but I personally rarely use it. Try get Rapture procs every 12 seconds, Archangel on CD, PoM more, Atonement vs. Prayer of Healing depending on the fight and situation but Atonement is pretty much king in 10 man + the extra damage is never bad to get a boss down quicker!
Oh and yeah, don't bother trying to G/F/Heal someone if it's not an emergency, let the other healer handle that. Just keep on doing what you're doing. Atonement usually snipes a lot of that healing anyway.
Codeine Shadow Disc Priest, 14/14 Heroic The Vikings, Terenas-EU
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby BraindG » 19 Apr 2014, 05:24

Thanks for the response, some good info taken from that.

I have a big smacky TMW icon appear in the middle of the screen when Archangel is at 5 stacks, meaning its pretty much out 100% of the time.

What i've done now is install Ignela's Rapture, i presume when that blue bar is counting down thats the time to throw out some PWS, not when is says "rapture ready"?

I've also made my meta proc more obvious in TMW, it shakes now during proc, so again during that time throw out some PWS?

This aside, i've changed TMW to notify me when MT is off weakened soul and has no PWS, my focus macro will then re-shield him, regardless of whether during meta proc or rapture.

I'll also focus more on throwing out PoM off CD.

Aside from the renew topic, i think this is just habit from being holy spec :) - was there anything else obvious from logs that i should be doing differently?

Moving forwards, providing i'm with my shaman healer i will focus on Atonement as priority, with the above adjustments taken into account.
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby Adinne » 19 Apr 2014, 08:16

You should not only Atonement, it's a bigger toolbox. But you should pretty much never use Heal and Renew, and only use Greater Heal or Flash Heal very very sparingly.

Looking at your Fallen Protectors log:

Too few Penances, this is by far the most important thing, along with the PW:Ss. It was an 8.5 min fight, meaning roughly close to 150 Penance ticks, you were at 71. Also roughly a minimum of 42 PW:Ss, you had 15.
Cascade is almost never worth it on 10man. Halo is a better choice in that fight, lines up beautifully with Sun's AoE.
You're doing good with the uptime on Evangelism and Archangel.

Here's one important tidbit actually: You are clipping your Penances. Most of your Penances only get two ticks out because you queue the next spell too soon and it interrupts the third tick. You got to work on the timing on that, cause you're losing 30% of the effectiveness of your Penance casts, and that's big. When casting Penance you have to hold off for 1 second or so before queueing the next spell; exactly how long comes with trial and error.

As for healer partners I like to have a druid or shaman for the big CDs they have. Shamans in particular can work really well in my view.
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby Elvenbane » 19 Apr 2014, 10:43

BraindG wrote:What i've done now is install Ignela's Rapture, i presume when that blue bar is counting down thats the time to throw out some PWS, not when is says "rapture ready"?

Rapture ready = your next shield that gets absorbed will refund its mana cost. So at minimum you should be tossing a shield each time it's ready (or shortly before depending on incoming dmg).
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby BraindG » 19 Apr 2014, 17:28

Thanks for the responses so far, been very helpful!

Elvenbane wrote:
BraindG wrote:What i've done now is install Ignela's Rapture, i presume when that blue bar is counting down thats the time to throw out some PWS, not when is says "rapture ready"?

Rapture ready = your next shield that gets absorbed will refund its mana cost. So at minimum you should be tossing a shield each time it's ready (or shortly before depending on incoming dmg).

K, i don't really get it sorry - so i cast only (for mana return) when countdown bar reaches zero and it says rapture ready? no other time?

Adinne wrote:Too few Penances, this is by far the most important thing, along with the PW:Ss. It was an 8.5 min fight, meaning roughly close to 150 Penance ticks, you were at 71. Also roughly a minimum of 42 PW:Ss, you had 15.

Are you working this out based on casts possible during time to kill boss?

Adinne wrote:You are clipping your Penances. Most of your Penances only get two ticks out because you queue the next spell too soon and it interrupts the third tick.

How did you figure this out? is there something i can look for in logs? - be good to keep an eye on this and see how i am progressin.

Tonight, I ran loads of Flex, setting up TMW with sounds, flashing icons and even some crazy wobbling icons! - all ofc whilst having a few beers. Focus was on
  • casting more PW:S during meta proc and Rapture if it ever appears (seems very infrequent)
  • Casting more PoM's
  • Stop clipping 3rd shot of Penance

I've linked a sha fight below, although, the later ones are maybe better as i'm "more-in-the-zone", albeit with a few more beers in me :P

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc ... 1&fight=41

Anything obvious we can take from that?

Anyways, thread seems a little derailed, anyone else got thoughts on good partners for Disc's and why?

Thanks
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby Adinne » 19 Apr 2014, 17:47

Right, you want to be using Penance on CD, which means roughly 6 casts per minute, each with 3 ticks, so you should be seeing about 18 Penance ticks per minute of fight.

To see the ticks, click on the "Damage Done", then click the Plus sign to the far right of the Penance row. This brings up a new graph above the main graph, that right now probably says "Graph: Separate" on its corner. If you click that thing once it becomes "Off", and a second time becomes "Graph: Main" a you see a whole bunch of vertical lines in the graph corresponding to the Penance ticks. You can zoom in on a section to see them, they should appear in groups of 3. Any single tick or two ticks means it was clipped for one reason or another.

For instance in the log you linked, if you zoom in the are from around 19:09:25 to 19:10:20, you should be seeing roughly 6 groups of lines. The first group has only 2 ticks, the second has a single tick, the third has 2 ticks, the fourth one is a full one with the 3 ticks it should have, so's the sixth. So 4 of those 6 Penances were clipped. Some times it happens simply because your target died, but that shouldn't form the majority of the casts.

With PW:Ss and Rapture I personally use Weakauras, but in any case you shouldn't just use it when it's free, I tend to use it more than that. So think of it as a lower bound, 5 PW:Ss per minute is the minimum, and ideally matching the Raptures. This is really mostly a mana-saving thing.

As for healing partners you'll probably hear 15 billion different opinions, largely depending on what raiding style and guild style we're talking about. In my guild we do normals and we'd never make someone play a specific class because "it works better", unless they really wanted to. My personal take is that it's nice to have some throughput healers to pack you up, so you focus on shielding and they focus on filling the bars up. Shaman or Holy can do that very well, I would put Druid close behind. On the other hand, you can load up on 2 discs or a Pally and Disc, and just rely on the massive combination of shields. I don't often heal with Monks so I'm not too sure what to make of them, but Revival alone is awesome.

So in short, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, every combination is workable if people know how to play their toon.
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby BraindG » 20 Apr 2014, 03:34

Fantastic, ok - i thought there was some magical way but we just looking at ticks and seeing how many had 3.

I decided to take a look and try to figure out what was causing the ones with 1 tick and 2, see if its something obvious that i can amend moving forwards.

Firstly, Penance was cast 26 times
  • 14 times all 3 released.
  • 8 times 2 released, 1 clipped.
  • 4 times 1 released, 2 clipped.

8 times 2 released, 1 was clipped.
  • 1 by Divine Star
  • 5 by smite
  • 2 i can't figure out, checked buffs, heals and dmg done.
Notes: Moving forwards with this I hope that my new alarm TMW warning for when im casting Penance will help reduce these figures, basically once i hear that i stop pressing all buttons.
Just wish i could figure out what the 2 clipped ones were, i was thinking maybe HoH or something, shrug... in case anyone's feeling like checking, there is a link at bottom in quotes with all pins i used. (think it was long for the URL code.)

4 times 1 released, 2 were clipped.
  • 1 by PW:Shield
  • 3 by Archangel

Notes: The biggest one here i suppose would be Archangel, this was in my Lazy DPS macro (collective *groan* i hear :) - but got so much other new stuff to take in that it makes like a little easier for the time being) - I have now removed it from my DPS macro and will again focus on casting this manually.
The PW:Shield must have occurred during a proc or a moment when i felt it was really needed.

Thanks guys, i'll monitor this moving forwards and track progression.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc7jF6m4nWRCJKT#type=auras&source=1&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2447666^0%24Off%24%2357572b%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24585^0%24Off%24%235e2e52%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24589^0%24Off%24%23DF5353%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24129250^0%24Off%24%23332433%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24110745^0%24Off%24%23a0a0a0%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2433110^0%24Main%24%23F43F5B%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%2417^0%24Off%24%23FFFF89%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24114908^0%24Off%24%23FF9D2A%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24110745^0%24Off%24%23FF7373%24healing%240%240.0.0.Any%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24596^0%24Main%24%23423442%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24false%2481700^0%24Off%24%23c0c0c0%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%2492514398.0.0.Priest%24false%2489485&fight=41
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Re: Disc healing partners

Postby Elvenbane » 20 Apr 2014, 10:09

20:01:25 - pom
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc ... iew=events

20:01:50 - smite which you then clipped with purify
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc ... iew=events

20:02:24 - pws
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc ... iew=events

As for healing partners, I prefer shammy or druid because of their cds and strong aoe heals.
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