Hey guys. :D My main is a shadow priest, though the question I have is actually from a weekly run I do on my holy paladin alt.
I 2 heal everything with a disc priest, and generally while I look better on meters - as a holy paladin should - we handle most things just fine. We've killed Morchok, Yor'sahj and Ultraxion on heroic in this alt run, so we tried our hand at Hagara this past week.
As someone who raids 25man and has had H Hagara on farm for months, it was really frustrating trying to heal the lightning phase. We were fine everywhere else, but blowing everything we had people just fell over.
I know I can handle improving on my end with the pally healing, but I was hoping you all might have some tips I can pass onto the disc priest.
Comp from last week: Prot paladin Frost DK Combat rogue 2x Surv hunter Fire mage Holy paladin Disc priest 2x Ret paladin
Definitely not the best comp, but we had people missing this week haha.
Hagara is a really really difficult fight to two heal in 10 man.
Myself as Holy and our Paladin two healed it with decent results. The following week, myself as Disc and our Resto Shaman got absolutely obliterated towards the end of the bubble phase (we stand in and heal).
Both times we were 9 manning it, so down one dps entirely, but it is very difficult. Its not surprising that you find it hard.
Lightning phase is, honestly, the easiest to heal provided the totems don't bug (they wont chain no matter how close you stand to one).
Holy is very strong for this. Get to the middle, drop a Lightwell near a "problem" totem, i.e. one where players near it keep dying every attempt, and then pop Divine Hymn when about half the totems have been linked. This is the one fight in DS where I really feel Holy outshines Disc, especially if you aren't standing inside the bubble.
I've never two healed this fight as Disc (or three healed it for that matter). I'm still scared of the Lightning phase and Holy's talented Divine Hymn works exceptionally well for it. The only raid comp I wouldn't suggest Holy for is if you had a Resto Druid in the mix as he could channel Tranq instead during Lightning.
Well, the purpose of having the priest stay disc was for cooldown purposes. With our comp (even the usual one and not the crazy one from this week), we need both PS and barrier for the tank's use on assaults. I asked if there was any other way to CD the assaults for the luxury of a holy priest, but it's a no-go.
He did channel Hymn on a pull or two, but honestly it set us further back in healing rather than help. We also use Divine Guardian on lightning, though I realized today our prot pally doesn't have his 4pc, so the range is pitifully short when he's on one side of the room rather than the middle.
I did the math and we're trying to heal almost 3M damage in 20-30 seconds. We just can't keep up at the end.
You really want the lightning phase to go as fast as possible. In those 21 seconds did you manage to get all the totems linked? Or did you get stuck somewhere?
It should go quicker than that. I typically toss out Renews on most of the raid while they are killing the add with PoMs bouncing, spam a few BH/FH as the raid spreads to totems then pop DH.
Are you using a Frost DK or Hunter to "taunt" the boss away during one of the Focused Assaults? Our Holy Paladin (you can see kill video in the youtube link in my sig) taunts away Hagara for one of the assaults for each phase since we were getting through frost/lightning much too quickly for our Prot Pally's CDs to come back up. That could be something else you could do. I would really recommend 3 healing it if at all possible.
I believe we had one set of totems that was slightly delayed by maybe 3-4 seconds. Being a 25man guild, we're still fairly new to having 8 totems and what it entails to get them all, but it was mostly smooth.
I hadn't thought about having someone taunt, just finding additional CDs. That may be a huge help and allow for a holy priest.... my only question is, does holy's throughput match an atonement disc priest's? Say he's walking into the phase with 5 stacks and pops wings with PoH spam. Does holy still come out ahead?
We're definitely in no danger of the enrage, so we may pick up a 3rd healer. It's like admitting defeat to me personally, I like challenges :(
Last edited by Pathosis on May 29th, 2012, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pathosis wrote:I hadn't thought about having someone taunt, just finding additional CDs. That may be a huge help and allow for a holy priest.... my only question is, does holy's throughput match an atonement disc priest's? Say he's walking into the phase with 5 stacks and pops wings with PoH spam. Does holy still come out ahead?(
I'm not sure about the first few seconds, but once the a Holy Priest pops divine hymn, it will smash heals as long as everyone is in range (and at the start, the debuff is still low and people are loosely stacked, so it's not too bad to heal anyway). With holy being my OS, I can get 70k crits on DH, with gear that isn't that great (~390, half part FL tier, terrible trinkets). It can easily do 1 million+ heals in the 8 seconds it lasts.
One other thing that may help is to make sure you have nature resist up, and if you have a class that can help heal (Spriest, Moonkin, Ele), get them to (I'm usually shadow, and throw out PoM's and renews).
The problem with a Disc Priest and Holy Paladin is that their healing cooldowns do not work for the lightning phase. People are too spread out for Barrier, and Aura Mastery does not work for lightning damage. Compare that with Divine Hymn and Tranq and it really can make a big difference in your healing output. We actually have Druids and Shadowpriests help with their healing cooldown on the lightning phase, the second they have chained their lightning.
My suggestions for 10 man 2-healing: - Always start with Ice phase, it's much easier to heal. You should only have 3 phases, so that means only 1 lightning phase. - Don't stand in the bubble during ice phase. Compared to 25man, I find it much harder to 2-heal in the bubble than running around. Save your cooldowns! And your raid team should really be able to dodge ice and run around. It's very easy once you know what to do. But if you do, this is a good time for Aura Mastery and Barrier. - Make sure to only dispel Frostflake when someone is inside the bubble. Set your raidframes so that you can see when someone has Watery Entrenchment, and only dispel when they have that. - Make the lightning phase as short as possible! Research different tactics to see what works best for you. - The lightning phase is all about every single raid member knowing where to stand exactly, to stand there right when the lightning starts chaining, and to move away from the Totems once the chain has passed. Especially that last part people tend to forget (it keeps doing damage if you stand still!). - Have Hybrid classes use their healing cooldowns during the lightning phase too. Make sure they step away from the lightning before they do so though. We have them run to the middle and then chain Hymn/Tranq. - Outheal Assault, you should not need a cooldown for every one. Use the taunts as described above.
Hope this helps, good luck!
Last edited by Zarqa on May 30th, 2012, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For us, it really helps with 3 people chaining in a triangle, rather than everyone running, or 4 people chaining. We have people with damage reduction options in the 'Center' spot, such as Shadow Priests, Hunters, etc. We use Hunter pets for the Southern pillar if we have that option, pets chain lightning as well.
They key really is everyone standing exactly at the right spot when the chain starts, and to move away right when the red line disappears, to stop the incoming damage. If done correctly, it chains in less than 10 seconds, except for the southern most spot, which sometimes needs people to run.
We still do lose people in this phase, but since we only have 1 lightning phase and the damage requirement isn't that hard, we can lose even 2 dps and kill her before the next lightning chain starts.
I healed the fight as AA/A Disc last night. AA+Divine Hymn seemed to be sufficient during the lightning phase but since we had a totem go wacky on us, the phase lasted a bit longer than usual.
The inside the frost bubble phase (if you are doing it) seemed a bit rougher with Disc towards the end. Keep in mind my group was down an entire dps (yay 9 manning stuff), so the crystals weren't dying as quickly.