< /br>< /br>< /br>

Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Alaidia » 28 May 2014, 14:05

Introduction
Hello all I'm Alaidya, and thank you for taking the time to check out my post and possibly give me a hand here. I am currently 10/14 H SoO with a fresh spoils kill. http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/ ... r/alaidya/ this is my Wow-heroes.com page. The healing comp we run is 2 priests and a resto shaman. For many of those fights we ran dual Disc absorption + resto shaman healing noise. It worked nice but its such a pain to deal with who gets which rapture target and I hate to stack classes/specs like that in 10 man. We have no "Oh Shit" button other than mitigation from our classes. This is why I feel Holy would be beneficial. Also I have been playing holy since BC, its always been my favorite spec/class. I've always been purely PvE so Holy Shadow were my dual specs for as long as I can remember. I've read up on as my literature regarding the subject of holy vs disc and its not very optimistic for Holy.

I came across the Haste build, courtesy of Decoy, and I was interested. I DPS a few fights in SoO and its useful having the same Haste rating for both specs. I have NEVER played a renew spam play style and Binding Heal was always... well, it was there but I hardly ever touched it. I feel I've given up a lot of other stats for 18300ish haste and I'm not entirely convinced it's worth it yet. I am more than willing to do a new play style to make this work and to fix any gemming/enchanting/glyphs/talents that i may need to. I've ranked as high as #3 on Rag in Cata and in the 20 and 10 during other fights in cata as Holy. I was top 100 for every fight in ICC and comparable in Ulduar. I always thought I knew what i was doing and that I was the expert, but I want to put my pride aside and admit, I need help. Farm night is tonight and I want to make a decent showing at least. I know I wont beat either of my co healers but I don't want to be a hindrance. SO I'll list off what I know and please feel free to fill me in or elaborate or call me out for anything.

What I Think I Know
The Goal
To start, the final achievable Renew Haste Cap w/o glyph is 18300ish (i know is like 40 something lower but I'm just simplifying). Ive heard that the Haste cap is worth the trade off but I have been pounding the numbers and LFR attempting to make it work and I feel underwhelming.
The goal after reaching a haste cap is to "Blanket" the raid and maintain the renews via FDCL procs, Cascade, Serenity, and Binding Heal.
The Spells
The first is the ideal choice, since it's instant and free. But it requires you to already have healing on the field to proc FDCL. It's ideal but you cant rely on it. Cascade is perfect bc it will renew the entire raids' Renews. It should be cast on the target with the least amount of Renew time left. I use Serenity on CD and try to work it in with my Cascade, bc Cascade prioritizes further targets to closer. A Renew may fall do to RNG so I take out the RNG but using Serenity at 0 secs on a target. Then there is Binding Heal, which is the most intensive. This, from what I understand, should be used in situations where Prayer of Healing would be needed, to provide Serendipity stacks. At 2 stacks I use PoH bc of my 2 set bonus and it becomes a 1 sec cast time, while weaving in FDCL procs and Binding Heal when I need the a stack(s).
During the Renew Blanket time I would be using Inner Will as my Sanctum, since I am running reduced spirit due to the large amount of shadow gear I wear to make the Haste cap. 15% mana cost reduction on instant casts, such as Renew, Prayer of Mending, Cascade. I am also in Serenity Chakra, or Yellow, for the renewing effect of Renew with single target spells and Cascade. Switching only for choice times in choice fights to Blue for Divine Hymn.

My glyphs are:
Prayer of Mending: It combos so well with Divine Insight, giving my PoM a Chain Heal like bounce for the first one.
Binding Heal: 3 out of 10 people in a 10 man with renewed Renew is very useful. The mana cost is steep but it's a situational spell.
Deep Wells: Very useful for another HoT. 2 more ticks on the most mana effect spell in the game. This may be substitued for Inner Sanctum for increased Movement Speed or decreased Magic Damage.

My Talents:
Void Tendrels: There is no reason to not be running Void Tendrils.
Feather or Body and Soul: really depends on the fight, usually Feather bc I have Weakened Soul on me from our amazing Disc priest.
From Darkness, Comes Light: I feel this is the bread and butter for Renew spamming, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it is a free instant Flash Heal that does significant healing and refreshes Renew. It procs off the spell cast, which can be problematic sometimes since the goal is keep Renews from falling. I find the rate that these proc outweighs the increased Shadow Fiend uptime from Mind Bender.
Desparate Prayer: self evident I feel.
Divine Insight: Making PoM more a priority, the reasons are aforementioned. This is rarely shifted for Twist of Fate.
Cascade: Renews Renew. It is essential for this play style. subbed out for Divine Star on Thok, or Norushan. Purely for stacking reasons.

Conclusion
This is just about everything I know, I'm not sure fight by fight what I should be doing. Fights like Iron Juggernaut, Dark Shamans, and Spoils (all heroic of course) worry me. Malkorak too, to a lesser extent. I'm worried about not having enough burst healing for it. Spoils seems so difficult for the Mogu side without absorbtion, we actually had to switch our healers so the Disc was always on the Mogu side.
My goal is to be not just comparable to my co healers but to feel like I'm contributing as much as the Disc. I am set on being Holy, its my passion, I can't stop thinking of ways to make this work when I'm not at my computer, and trying to make it work when I am. I need some guidance and advice.
Thank you for reading my wall of text.
User avatar
Alaidia
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 21:57

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Dropson » 29 May 2014, 00:07

Hey, I too came to the same conslusion as my healing team consists of a Disc and Resto Druid so I decided to go Holy. Usually I melt faces as Shadow, but for Jugg/Thok I go Holy since we 3-heal it. Sometimes I get to heal the whole farm as Holy when our Disc is tanking.

I use the haste spec as well, although with the os gear I have I was only able to reach the 13163 breakpoint. 15-16k spirit is what I was running and felt mostly comfortabe, but this style is pretty mana intensive so there were situations where I was just completely oom (usually on Protectors for some reason).

Talent wise Cascade and FDCL are of course mandatory. I switched between DI/ToF depending on the fight. There aren't many changes from fight to fight with this play style. Jugg is pretty standard if you 3 heal it, Shamans I healed downstairs myself as Holy and it was ok when shielding people with prison, Spoils you can solo heal a side as well (Decoy has a video on it on his Twitch). Did Norushen with Cascade and Divine Star - both worked. For Malkorok people consider Holy better then Disc, our mastery gets to shine here which doesn't happen that often. The only fight that I do differently is Thok where I just sit in sanctuary with glyphed binding heal/coh/deep wells and don't even bother with Renew.

Glyphs - Renew (for the +33% more healing) , Deep Wells, Binding Heal.

Overall the haste build is really fun to play. Don't worry about FDCL procs, you'll get a lot of them so between them/HW:C/cascade it's easy to maintain Renews on people. I mainly try to cast Binding Heal during meta gem procs since it's a bit expensive, but sometimes you have to do it outside of it. Serendipity stacks can be used for both Prayer of Healing and Greater Heal since both of them benefit from our 2p. During more intensive raidwise damage you just chain 2x BH into PoH for the maximum effect. Don't be afraid that your Renews can fall off, it will happen sometimes and you can just recast it. I also never use Inner Will considering the ammount of spirit I run with. Althought switching Chakras during Divine Hymn can net you additional healing I not really sure it's that beneficial since you'll be stuck in Sanctuary for 20 seconds after that without the ability to refresh Renews.

Not sure if it covered all of your questions so feel free to ask.
But one more thing. Don't expect to top meters or even get close to your Disc priest when you 3-heal stuff. You'll be able to keep your raid alive, but the numbers won't be spectacular on the meters. Once you get over this small fact you can have a lot of fun healing with this spec. At least I do.
User avatar
Dropson
Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 10 Mar 2014, 03:38

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Aethyx » 29 May 2014, 14:24

Dropson wrote:Glyphs - Renew (for the +33% more healing) , Deep Wells, Binding Heal.


Can I just point out that the haste breakpoint 13163 is for unglyphed renew, not for the glyphed version?
all haste breakpoints

Not sure if it's worth using the glyph if you don't make the 18.2k haste point, or how you stat weights look if you are using the glyph but unable to make that breakpoint.
And then there's the weird thing that you get the (unglyphed) duration on a glyphed renew if you refresh it through chakra - does this make the 13k haste breakpoint viable again then?

I've only dabbled a bit in holy renew-style on farm and it felt really fun but just not up-to-par to our druid nor shaman, I was playing unglyphed renew at the 13.1k breakpoint.
User avatar
Aethyx
Member
 
Posts: 450
Joined: 05 Apr 2013, 13:48

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Dropson » 30 May 2014, 03:30

I know what the breakpoints are.

A while ago I tested how it looks like:

13163 unglyphed 6 ticks - 20203 each (total 121218) | refreshed 6 ticks - 20203 (121218)
13163 glyphed 4 ticks - 26870 (107480) | 6 ticks - 26870 (161220)

18229 unglyphed 6 ticks - 19850 (119110) | 6 ticks - 19850 (119110)
18229 glyphed 5 ticks - 26400 (132000) | 6 ticks - 26400 (158400)
This of course is really simplified as it doesn't take crits into consideration.

Being at 18215 give you a + hps in both glyphed and unglyphed situations. At 13163 you get - hps before refreshing, but when you refresh your glyphed Renew right as it's about to run out the 10 ticks heal for more then the 12 unglyphed.
Without a doubt 18215 is better and if had the option to reach it I'd certainly do so, but I don't think this makes 13163 not viable. I guess it's more strick and depends how comfortable you are at rolling your Renews for a long time.

Of course this might be wrong or could have forgotten something since I haven't really put that much thought into it so if someone wants to correct me please do.

And like I said before don't expect to compete with other healers in numbers besides on fights like Norushen and Thok especially if you're playing with a Disc.
User avatar
Dropson
Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: 10 Mar 2014, 03:38

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Aethyx » 30 May 2014, 06:46

Oh i was thinking of running some tests myself, then realized I didn't have a holy spec. Seems like the difference between the 13k and 18k breakpoints when glyphed is only the extra ticks on an un-refreshed renew. I should've really played with the glyph when I tried it out then :)
Thanks for the clarification though!

As to the OP, It would seem the renew glyph is kind of mandatory, even if you're around 13k haste; I would personally take out that PoM glyph, as it reduces the total healing it does. It can be a nice spot heal i guess on that first bounce, but there's other better glyphs in my opinion.
User avatar
Aethyx
Member
 
Posts: 450
Joined: 05 Apr 2013, 13:48

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Alaidia » 31 May 2014, 19:37

Dropson wrote:I know what the breakpoints are.


13163 unglyphed 6 ticks - 20203 each (total 121218) | refreshed 6 ticks - 20203 (121218)
13163 glyphed 4 ticks - 26870 (107480) | 6 ticks - 26870 (161220)

18229 unglyphed 6 ticks - 19850 (119110) | 6 ticks - 19850 (119110)
18229 glyphed 5 ticks - 26400 (132000) | 6 ticks - 26400 (158400)
This of course is really simplified as it doesn't take crits into consideration.

This is where my confusion comes back. It appears to me that 18k haste is inferior to 13k. I could totally be reading the information wrong or misinterpreting it, however.
So assuming that I am incorrect in how I viewed the aforementioned, is the Haste break point really worth losing all this int over? i need to gem straight haste, with no exceptions, and switch to 2 shadow pieces, one of which has hit. I drop to about 14k spirit and that's using a spirit flask and Inner Will to compensate. But with the 13k haste breakpoint i can hit most of my set bonuses, and have 15k+ spirit. Is the 18k break point really worth losing all those other stats? And if it is, how should I handle the huge loss of regen from needing so much more haste?
User avatar
Alaidia
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 21:57

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Adinne » 31 May 2014, 21:14

Okay I must be very confused here, cause I don't understand all this discussion about breakpoints. Isn't the whole point of the spec that you would refresh renew rather than let it fall off? In that case, isn't it irrelevant how many ticks your renew would have given you, and all that matters is how strong the ticks are and how frequent they are? Namely you'd want to glyph renew, and go for as much haste as you possibly can regardless of breakpoints, just in order to make the ticks closer to each other?
User avatar
Adinne
MVP
 
Posts: 389
Joined: 02 Jan 2013, 09:28

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Heafstaag » 01 Jun 2014, 12:07

In most cases you will not readd renew on tanks or people because of the single target chakra. you will simply single target the ppl taking dmg and the renew will refresh. So the higher the breakpoint, the more tick, which means more healing. it will still have the same duration. just teh amount of ticks change
Image
User avatar
Heafstaag
Member
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 18 May 2013, 18:19
Location: Norway

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby Aethyx » 02 Jun 2014, 06:21

I never thought about it too much either, but there will still be plenty of renews that run out (after refreshing or not), so breakpoints still matter. When blanketing I still aim to refresh people's renew as they are about to fall off, adding the last tick to the new HoT (like any dps class with a dot does). In that scenario your breakpoint matters as well.

It just seems that with the whole "gimpy" mechanic of getting unglyphed duration on a glyphed renew, the breakpoints kind of blur out and become less important as it doesn't -always- give an extra tick. I am mostly wondering what the breakpoint is to get that 7th tick on a refreshed glyphed renew, as there might be more refreshed ones running full duration than unrefreshed ones.

EDIT: well, if it's the same breakpoint as a regular renew for 7 ticks, that would be around 23k haste. A little too steep in my opinion!
User avatar
Aethyx
Member
 
Posts: 450
Joined: 05 Apr 2013, 13:48

Re: Need help to go Holy for H 10/14

Postby nbca » 02 Jun 2014, 09:55

The HBP for the seventh tick is much higher at 83.32% or at 31701 haste rating.
User avatar
nbca
Member
 
Posts: 110
Joined: 05 Feb 2014, 04:45


Return to Holy & Disc Archive



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests