25 Raiding VS 10 Raiding

[Ashleycakez]

And in the end, everyone will walk away with their own opinion intact.

This.

Also its a game. It doesn't matter what content you feel is "harder." Its your $15 a month do with it as you wish.

I personally hated keeping up a 25 man roster and our separate 10 man group went much further in Wrath than our 25 man ever would have.

Both raid formats have their strengths and weaknesses imo. But again, this isn't anything you'll boast about in a resume unless you are going to go professional.

Hobbies are hobbies :P

[Arlee]

First off anyone who's ever gone from 25 to 10 raiding will tell you that 10 raiding is easier than 25s. The logistical and organizational challenges that 25 raiding involves is disproportionately more difficult compared to 10 raiding. Ghostcrawler even acknowledged this disparity during MoP Beta and admitted that there were heated discussions going on internally at Blizzard about the whole 25 vs 10. That is why 25 Bosses now drop one more piece of loot than they did in Cata and 'we' are promised something else to help promote 25s.

Ehh, harder to organize and run than 10 man sure, but the fights aren't necessarily harder. At the very least some fight mechanics have lead to bosses that were far harder on 10m than 25m. The reverse has been true in the past as well. It just depends.

Personally I like both 10 man and 25 man and I don't think either is inherently better than the other. For me it is the people I am playing with that matters the most.

It's funny but thinking back at this point I can't remember how I managed to raid lead 40 man raids. I know I did it, and I was hyperorginizational about it, because I am about everything. I think I have blocked a lot of the unfun parts of that from my memory.

[Zipples]

25 man is fun but inherently harder to organize and administrate. The inherent problem with 25 man though is purely this. It is much harder and requires much more help running. Thus the majority of people would rather run with 10 solid people. The other issue is you find much more constant turn over and recruitment.

I think both paths are really their own beasts with some fights being easier on 10 and 25. 25 will just always be burdened with the extra admin and organization. Blizzard to better support 25 need to help take some of that or reward it better.

[Spinalcrack]

I personally think people tend to leave for 10’s because things are tilted in 10’s favour. Ie.

* Playing field doesn’t scale with raid size, so 10’s often have more room to move around, less spell effects etc

* With tank dps being so high now, and most 10 and 25 man fights requiring the same number of tanks, 10 mans have an easier time making dps checks

* It’s a lot easier to find 10 people you can get along with on vent multiple nights a week than 25, and even 1 or 2 in the raid that get on your nerves can make you want to find another guild.

* Fights often have certain jobs that if not done perfectly result in a wipe. On 10’s usually this is for 1 or 2 people, but on 25’s it’s more like 4-5.

* On both 10 and 25’s 1 or 2 d/c’s can mean a wipe, but with 25 people, the chance of a d/c each fight is far greater

* If you get the same gear in 10’s and know a 10 team has 9 great other players why not go to 10’s? Finding a 25 team with 24 other great players is not that easy (especially when a lot of great players have left for 10’s lol).

* You can argue with the new cooking and lack of guild cauldron’s 10’s have an easier time always having the best buff food and flasks. Getting enough for 10 people vs 25 people, just takes more of everything and in both 10’s and 25’s there are always a few people that don’t farm as much as they should and have to be covered by the rest of the team. That coverage is just often bigger in 25’s.

* Gearing I think is just easier on 10’s. Even with less gear dropping. Ie. In order to fill our 25 man we have 18 cloth wearers, and 13 people on the conq token. It’s great for the one hunter and one shaman we have, lol. We are constantly trying to recruit to balance the classes, but there just aren’t that many good players looking for 25’s, so in some cases the number of people rolling per item outpaces the extra loot in 25’s.

* Etc etc

Why do people still raid 25’s at all then? The Challenge, and the feeling you get in a larger group. When you down a boss in a 25, I think most feel way more powerful and a part of something much bigger than when in a 10 man. Otherwise, loot, fight mechanics, and organization in most cases all favour 10’s. I really think losing the larger raid sizes takes something away from wow. I personally loved the TBC model the best, with different dungeons tuned to each raid size and with different gear in each. You could raid 25’s with your guild, and your guild was important to ensure you saw all the content, and do 10’s with friends both in and out of guild.

[Nephelee]

I think one of the big reasons LFR is 25 and not 10 is due to the amount of tanks and healers available. Not because Blizzard sees 25 as being easier than 10.

[Woaden]

I think one of the big reasons LFR is 25 and not 10 is due to the amount of tanks and healers available. Not because Blizzard sees 25 as being easier than 10.

There's also a higher ratio of players accommodated per instance, reducing instance loads on their end.

[Ruubik]

I think one of the big reasons LFR is 25 and not 10 is due to the amount of tanks and healers available. Not because Blizzard sees 25 as being easier than 10.

I am pretty sure I saw this on their website, or as a blue comment when I first started (I know the word of a brand new poster is hardly fact though, and a quick search doesn't find it). I think they used the term 'more forgiving on mistakes'.

[Ruubik]

I think one of the big reasons LFR is 25 and not 10 is due to the amount of tanks and healers available. Not because Blizzard sees 25 as being easier than 10.

There's also a higher ratio of players accommodated per instance, reducing instance loads on their end.

Sorry for the double post, but I think this is actually one of the faults with LFR. Honestly accomplished players should be doing the standard raids, and LFR should be for those who are just experiencing them for the first few times. I hate it when you join LFR, wipe and then someone who clearly knew the tactic bemoans people for not doing the right thing when it is designed for people who don't know the right thing.

Dropping it down to 10 man would give it some challenge because you are more likely in a less skilled group, it would lessen the amount of people who can make mistakes and assuming it was tuned to mechanics didn't 1 shot wipe the raid it could be a good learning environment, which is what the game needs.

I don't know about now, but in DS it was 10 or so people that carried LFR each time and the new players never got to learn anything as a result. Which defeats the point for me.

[Zych]

It could possibly be a case that a vocal minority like 25 man, but the vast majority actually enjoy 10 man?

Slow to respond to this but...I think it's more like, the vocal majority prefer 25s, until they have to run one, then they say screw it let's just do 10s.

Myself, I always thought that if they removed 25 mans I'd be done, but lately I think I might just sigh in relief.

[Woaden]

Sorry for the double post, but I think this is actually one of the faults with LFR. Honestly accomplished players should be doing the standard raids, and LFR should be for those who are just experiencing them for the first few times. I hate it when you join LFR, wipe and then someone who clearly knew the tactic bemoans people for not doing the right thing when it is designed for people who don't know the right thing.

Dropping it down to 10 man would give it some challenge because you are more likely in a less skilled group, it would lessen the amount of people who can make mistakes and assuming it was tuned to mechanics didn't 1 shot wipe the raid it could be a good learning environment, which is what the game needs.

I don't know about now, but in DS it was 10 or so people that carried LFR each time and the new players never got to learn anything as a result. Which defeats the point for me.

People who enter an instance with absolutely no idea how a boss works should catch flack. Taking 60 seconds to read the dungeon journal too difficult? Youtubing 5 minute video too much work?

Proper strats are not needed to down LFR bosses, just being able to dodge the worst of the mechanics. I mean how hard is Elegon to down if people manage to not drop down the giant hole in the floor? Easy. Tanks hold aggro and people avoid one shots and the boss gets downed majority of the time.

I'm VERY SORRY but the challenge in this game doesn't come from being stuck in a 10 raid with bads. You can't get legitimately one shot in LFR unless you're really insistent on standing in a void zone or jumping off a cliff. Hell in general going in with zero knowledge of an encounter and simply mousing over your debuffs should keep you alive.

LFR isn't about learning or even raiding. LFR is a collection of target dummies that drop loot. LFR contributes in to way to a real discussion about 25 vs 10.

Slow to respond to this but...I think it's more like, the vocal majority prefer 25s, until they have to run one, then they say screw it let's just do 10s.

It's not "until they have to run one" rather "until they experience how easy 10s are and realize they have the same rewards".