3202 Haste ?

[Kaag]

After some toying I was able to bring my haste to 3210 last night. However, looking at my stats I'm sort of concerned about my mastery seeming too low (13.58), especially with the implementation of the 4set spike burns.

I guess my question is; I haven't seen much data regarding the dps increase from 3202 as opposed to hitting 30% and then going mastery, is there any?

I did sim it last night before I logged off and haste was still my best stat by a fair amount without DI, when I got DI it turned into my worst by a large margin. I do have legendary and we do raid with a lock but our resto druid always gets DI so I wouldn't normally have it. I assume those results are a product of the haste scaling graphs I saw on Kilee's guide because there appears to be a significant drop off after the 3202 mark.

Or like so many others maybe I am just confused about this 3202 mark in general. In order to pick up this haste mark, I dropped lavawalker for haste, and mastery to gloves for haste, I also swapped two brilliant infernos for two reckless lava corals (brilliant garnets are still prohibitively pricey so I just gem them as a I get them). I won't be able to play at the dummies for a few more hours so I figured I would try to get some opinions during worktime. :P Ty in advance.

[Arlee]

I am pretty sure that the default action list in SimC doesn't use the MB/MS rotation so it is hard to get an accurate measure from that.

3202 is an important number because that's where imp DP gets it's next bump in damage. So you only see the benefit of that every time you cast DP and depending on how often you cast it in a fight will change how much difference you see out of it.

[Kaag]

Yeah, the fact that you can't really sim the ms/mb is making it sort of annoying. As a general rule of thumb it would be safe to say, 3202 would be more beneficial on high movement fights, but mastery would be superior on fights with burn phases or low movement fights? I guess I will have to go to logs and inspect IDP a bit more. I did notice on Black/Althor's conversation that they IDP tick doesn't actually get applied until after the first dot tick of dp if I understood that properly?

[Drye]

It's really a preference thing at this point. They're both so close in terms of dps, the only way mastery would win out is if you got like the best luck possible so that AA and SF lined up perfectly everythime AA was up.

[Dahk]

I did notice on Black/Althor's conversation that they IDP tick doesn't actually get applied until after the first dot tick of dp if I understood that properly?

IDP hits your target immediately after you cast Devouring Plague. If you cast DP again before DP "ticks", ~3sec, you will not get IDP damage on your target. So there is no benefit to spamming DP. If you have combat text going on and you see the DP tick damage (or you can mentally time it) you can cast DP again and IDP will hit.

[Luminee]

I did notice on Black/Althor's conversation that they IDP tick doesn't actually get applied until after the first dot tick of dp if I understood that properly?

IDP hits your target immediately after you cast Devouring Plague. If you cast DP again before DP "ticks", ~3sec, you will not get IDP damage on your target. So there is no benefit to spamming DP. If you have combat text going on and you see the DP tick damage (or you can mentally time it) you can cast DP again and IDP will hit.

Amazing information, thanks!

[Dahk]

Amazing, but probably wrong :)

OK so this is still bugging me. I've been hanging out at the Dummy, we getting to be good friends. So I try to spam DP 10 times, this is what I get:

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23:11:39> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 7614 Shadow.
23:11:39> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1143 Overhealed)
23:11:39> Your Devouring Plague afflicted Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:39> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (242 Overhealed)
23:11:39> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (242 Overhealed)
23:11:39> Your Combat Mind applied You.
23:11:40> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 7671 Shadow.
23:11:40> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1151 Overhealed)
23:11:40> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:41> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (244 Overhealed)
23:11:41> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (244 Overhealed)
23:11:41> Your Combat Mind stacked You 2.
23:11:42> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2556 Shadow.
23:11:42> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (81 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (82 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Lightweave applied You.
23:11:42> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (383 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 7728 Shadow.
23:11:42> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1160 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:42> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (245 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (245 Overhealed)
23:11:42> Your Combat Mind stacked You 3.
23:11:43> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 8211 Shadow.
23:11:43> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1231 Overhealed)
23:11:43> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:44> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (262 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (261 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Combat Mind stacked You 4.
23:11:44> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 5717 Shadow. (Critical)
23:11:44> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (182 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (182 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Velocity applied You.
23:11:44> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (857 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 9922 Shadow.
23:11:44> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1488 Overhealed)
23:11:44> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:45> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (316 Overhealed)
23:11:45> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (315 Overhealed)
23:11:45> Your Combat Mind stacked You 5.
23:11:46> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 20881 Shadow. (Critical)
23:11:46> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (3132 Overhealed)
23:11:46> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:46> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (664 Overhealed)
23:11:46> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (664 Overhealed)
23:11:46> Your Combat Mind stacked You 6.
23:11:46> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2774 Shadow.
23:11:46> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (88 Overhealed)
23:11:46> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (88 Overhealed)
23:11:46> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (416 Overhealed)
23:11:47> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 21023 Shadow. (Critical)
23:11:47> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (3154 Overhealed)
23:11:47> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:47> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (668 Overhealed)
23:11:47> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (668 Overhealed)
23:11:47> Your Combat Mind stacked You 7.
23:11:48> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2793 Shadow.
23:11:48> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (89 Overhealed)
23:11:48> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (89 Overhealed)
23:11:48> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (418 Overhealed)
23:11:49> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 10128 Shadow.
23:11:49> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1519 Overhealed)
23:11:49> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:49> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (322 Overhealed)
23:11:49> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (322 Overhealed)
23:11:49> Your Combat Mind stacked You 8.
23:11:50> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 10197 Shadow.
23:11:50> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1530 Overhealed)
23:11:50> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:50> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2831 Shadow.
23:11:50> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (325 Overhealed)
23:11:50> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (324 Overhealed)
23:11:50> Your Combat Mind stacked You 9.
23:11:50> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (90 Overhealed)
23:11:50> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (91 Overhealed)
23:11:50> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (424 Overhealed)
23:11:51> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 10265 Shadow.
23:11:51> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1540 Overhealed)
23:11:51> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
23:11:51> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (326 Overhealed)
23:11:51> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (327 Overhealed)
23:11:51> Your Combat Mind stacked You 10.
23:11:52> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2850 Shadow.
23:11:52> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (91 Overhealed)
23:11:52> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (91 Overhealed)
23:11:52> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (427 Overhealed)
23:11:54> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2850 Shadow.
23:11:54> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (90 Overhealed)
23:11:54> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (91 Overhealed)
23:11:54> Your Power Torrent applied You.
23:11:54> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (427 Overhealed)
23:11:56> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 2850 Shadow.
23:11:56> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (90 Overhealed)
23:11:56> Your Vampiric Embrace healed You 0 Shadow. (91 Overhealed)
23:11:56> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (427 Overhealed)
23:11:57> Your Lightweave faded You.

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So that is 10 IDP Damaging hits in 12 seconds, with 5 ticks of DP in between. That pretty much is spamming...

My stats for this were 30.77% Haste (2525) with a 1.15s GCD.

I tried to do it (semi) naked with minimal haste, but I didn't have enough mana to sustain it, even with IW. But I got the feeling from what I could do that Haste wasn't the issue.

So what do you think is IDP spammable? Can someone else try this out, and confirm I'm not crazy, lol.

[Luminee]

I tried this with 3318 haste and got the same result.

[Blackmorgrim]

If you both have the Madness trinket, the reason its allowing it is because you're gaining stacks of intellect each time. So its allowing the over-write because the new one is stronger.

Try that after you've reached 10 stacks, and you probably will see a different result.

[Dahk]

OK.. took off both trinkets, cape(LW), Weapon(PT) and visited my good buddy the Dummy. This is what I saw

21:12:22> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:22> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:22> Your Devouring Plague afflicted Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:23> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:23> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:23> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:24> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1530 Shadow.
21:12:24> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:25> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4592 Shadow.
21:12:25> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (688 Overhealed)
21:12:25> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:26> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1529 Shadow.
21:12:27> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:27> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:27> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (688 Overhealed)
21:12:27> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:28> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4592 Shadow.
21:12:28> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:28> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:29> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1530 Shadow.
21:12:29> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:29> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 9599 Shadow. (Critical)
21:12:29> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (1440 Overhealed)
21:12:29> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:31> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4592 Shadow.
21:12:31> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (688 Overhealed)
21:12:31> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:31> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1530 Shadow.
21:12:31> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:32> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:32> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:32> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:33> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1530 Shadow.
21:12:34> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:34> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4592 Shadow.
21:12:34> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:34> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:36> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1530 Shadow.
21:12:36> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:36> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:36> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:36> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:38> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:38> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)
21:12:38> Your Devouring Plague refreshed Raider's Training Dummy.
21:12:38> Your Devouring Plague damaged Raider's Training Dummy 1529 Shadow.
21:12:38> Your Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (229 Overhealed)
21:12:39> Your Improved Devouring Plague hit Raider's Training Dummy 4593 Shadow.
21:12:39> Your Improved Devouring Plague healed You 0 Shadow. (689 Overhealed)

As you can see there weren't any SP gains there. But I do think there is some kind of behind the scene's mechanic to prevent true spamming. I just can't quite figure it out. I'm gonna have to play with it some more, but there is definitely more here than is readily apparent.