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Glyph of Reflective Shield

Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Weleroth » 19 May 2014, 05:37

I've been having an argument about Glyph of Reflective Shield, and instead of de-railing the thread, I figured I'd just come and post here and see what H2P thinks of my logic.

I agree that Glyph of Mind Flay is (in almost all fights) the go to glyph.

After that I would say that Glyph of Reflective Shield, Glyph of Fade, Glyph of Inner Sanctum and Glyph of Inner Fire are your primary defensive glyphs. Of those, Power Word Shield generally does the most to actually keep you alive; since it's the only one that costs you dps time, this makes sense.

Then you get.. other glyphs, which have varying purposes. For instance, the glyph that reduces dispersion cooldown by 12.5%. For myself, I consider Dispersion something that should not be used if at all possible in a pve setting (due to the dps cost), unless you are doing something like solo soaking Static Shocks. Those places that you DO need dispersion, are generally something that you can plan ahead for, and I can't think of one where being able to use dispersion 15 seconds faster actually matters. (An exception could be weak healers on Norushen I suppose, but your healers would have to be at a very specific level of ability in order for it to matter.)

Another one that could actually compete is Vampiric Embrace, so that you get front loaded healing. I suppose I tend to downrank that one due to my own guild, but I generally find, in most cases where a big healing cooldown is needed, its often needed for more than 10 seconds. And in most cases when a big healing cooldown is needed, usually the healers can ALMOST cover the healing without it, and so you're just topping off the last bit of healing, in which case being able to heal more from vampiric embrace just increases it's over healing.

So now my glyphs look like this:
Glyph of Mind Flay + 2 of:
Inner Fire, Inner Sanctum, Reflective Shield, Fade (damage reduction), Dispersion, Vampiric Embrace.
In my opinion, Dispersion simply isn't required. Vampiric Embrace is situational depending on your healers strength. Of the other 4, either you need extra damage mitigation in an encounter, in which case, I would want the strongest one, or you don't, in which case you don't need any of them and you take Inner Sanctum for the speed boost. (As a comparison, for Inner Sanctum to provide the same damage reduction as Power Word Shield, you need to take almost 1.7 million damage in 15 seconds, which isn't as unreasonable as the fade glyph, but still a touch higher than I would expect in most cases.)

Now often people say that the numbers from Reflective Shield are too low to warrant it. But glancing at my last set of logs, our shadow priest used PW:S 13 times, and did 800k damage with reflective shield. That means she did damage with 11 of them, which, given 2 chunks of movement on that kill (for body and soul), makes sense. Of course the number is still ridiculously low in terms of overall dps. But it means for each cast of shield for damage mitigation purposes she kept dps going.

Of course, if your healers are awesome, then you take mind flay, sanctum (for the speed boost after a wipe), and dispersion (because nothing else matters); except if you're like me, you're still going to cast PW:S on yourself every so often, so why not take reflective shield so that when you are silly and forget that your healers can do everything, you still keep SOME dps going for that one second? (Since the third glyph doesn't matter anyway!)
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Woaden » 19 May 2014, 19:03

The damage almost never affects bosses. That + the limited size of Shadow shields make it a pretty terrible glyph for Shadow PvE raiding. GoWS is rather nice though w/ B&S.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Charuo » 20 May 2014, 05:14

It is shocking to me how easily you dismiss GoVE, considering it is actually a throughput improvement, and considering the damage patterns in SoO and ToT.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Shardstorm » 20 May 2014, 05:51

Weleroth wrote:In most cases where a big healing cooldown is needed, its often needed for more than 10 seconds.

Gonna come out and say it, that's patently false. This expac has been all about burst damage, this tier in particular. Squeeze as much as you can into the shortest time.

My defaults have consistently been Mind Flay, Vampiric Embrace, and either Fade (burst damage reduction) or Inner Sanctum (for the sweet sweet spell damage reduction, never for the run speed, feathers too good). If I'm shielding to survive something, I'm comfortable taking the hit to DPS, rather than relying on Reflective Shield to do some token amount and consume a meaningful glyph spot in the mean time. Fade really is superior in every way really.
Last edited by Shardstorm on 28 May 2014, 21:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Twintop » 20 May 2014, 09:24

I've been running GoMF this whole expansion (though it is the first to get replaced if I need to swap in another glyph for utility). Since the changes to Shadowform, I've been using GoFade and GoIS in the other two to give myself some on-demand damage reduction, and, some passive reduced spell damage.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Heafstaag » 26 May 2014, 00:45

Dispersion is something you definately want to use.
Examples: On Dark Shamans it can be used if a Disc priest or someone that can shield is lacking (With the iron prison and the dot - a single shield will most likely not save you). Protectors you might want to disperse the mark to actually survive so external CDs don't ahve to be used on you straight away. Yes it is a DPS loss, but a dead DPS does 0 DPS.
Iron Jugg To soak bombs if the tanks are not able to soak them all or to simply save the raid because the tank is to far away. Does not happen a lot, but it does.

These are just examples of where you might wanna use it. There are several other cases where you would not care about the DPS loss and just do it. For the sake of your raid and your life. But yes, I agree that the glyph is not needed in most cases.

When it comes to VE - you want the glyph for it most of the time, if you actually end up using it in the fight. Calculating (or what it is called) on Klaxxi is an example, Garrosh with Desecrate and Whirling. Iron Jugg if you are stacking near the boss for P2.
Norushen when you move (the beam) and if there are a lot of those purple pools on the ground - from the adds. Sha of Pride after the 30% transition you might wanna use it before his AoE burst to top ppl off.
Protectors To top people off after Calamity
So there are a lot of situations where you want to top people fast or have it only last a little while but heal a lot.

+ on a sidenote. if your healers are good enough and you prob got a disc priest. Will you really need to shield yourself to stay alive? In most cases the Disc priest will have absorbs on you and if you have the Prison on Dark Shamans you can easily call for a CD or the Disc priest should be shielding you before it ends. So the DPS loss of shielding yourself is not really needed - which then makes the glyph, not useless, but not needed
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Anshlun » 28 May 2014, 06:40

GoVE is really underrated. The glyph combined with a DP + MFI can be what your raid needs to survive in situations like whirls on Garrosh, when you're cutting as many healers add possible to maximize dps.

As for the OP argument, to be honest I've never given much thought on GoRS because of the sizes of our shields (about 200k is the biggest I've seen) but it would make sense to use it if the damage it absorbed could be directed to a certain target. The problem is that a lot of AoE damage that you will absorb with it, i.e Malice, is not from the target you want to damage, as mentioned above, it is treated as 'environment' damage, making you literally damage the air.

I personally don't use GoMF because on how it interact with another speed boosts right now, mainly feathers. Maybe I will start using it on WoD when they fix that issue, but until then I am sticking with GoFade GoIS and GoVE
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Sheitan » 28 May 2014, 07:25

Twintop wrote:I've been running GoMF this whole expansion (though it is the first to get replaced if I need to swap in another glyph for utility). Since the changes to Shadowform, I've been using GoFade and GoIS in the other two to give myself some on-demand damage reduction, and, some passive reduced spell damage.

This is also exactly what I've been doing for a very long time.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby TuxedoFish » 07 Jun 2014, 17:15

I would use Glyph of Mind Flay more if it just played nice with those flippin' feathers.
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Re: Glyph of Reflective Shield

Postby Drye » 07 Jun 2014, 19:53

Cancel aura macros ftw
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