[H2P] 6.2 Discipline Guide
by Automaticjak » 22 Jun 2015, 21:28
2. Stat Priority
3. Cheat Sheet
10. BiS List
A huge thank you to the following who helped with creating this guide and the last two for all the work they've done for the Priest community:
For his candor, his passion and his love of angel wings
Who put his faith in the unknown and has always been there to help
Aerrynn <One of Us>-EU
For her fantastic proofreading, editing and formatting assistance, and keeping the Holy Priest flag flying high
For formatting and l33t link help on the site
Naerchan <Nero Decree>
For getting me started, and her continuing support
Derevka <Something Wicked>
For everything he has done for our community, for inspiring me to be involved in the community and for laying the groundwork
Discipline is first and foremost a PROACTIVE healer as opposed to its holy counterpart as a REACTIVE healer. Being an absorption based class we can and should prevent a large percentage of the damage before it goes out through spells like Power Word: Shield and our passive Divine Aegis. Disc can be a very simple spec to learn, but as with all healers there is a learning curve. The difference between an entry-level Disc priest and a mythic level Disc priest is the knowledge of the encounter’s damage and their proactive use of shielding. This guide is meant to give a foundation for Discipline going into 6.2
“A bad disc shields after damage goes out, a good one shields before”
Tier set bonuses T18 Disc are as follows;
2 Piece : Your Penance damage and healing is increased by 12% for 15 sec each time it deals damage or heals. This effect stacks up to 6 times
4 Piece : Each time Penance heals, it has a 50% chance to heal another injured ally near your target.
Spirit > Mastery > Multistrike >= Crit > Haste > Vers
Spirit increases our mana regen, based on the encounter or playstyle you will need varying amounts of spirits, or use talents to compensate for a lack or an abundance of spirit
With PW:S being a large portion of Discipline healing, Mastery is by and large your strongest stat as it directly increases the strength of shields and healing
Multistrike grants your shields and healing a chance to multistrike for 33% of the original amount
Critical Strikes grants a chance for your heals to crit for 100% of original value. Even though this is Disc’s attuned stat, it is slightly devalued due to Empowered Archangel
Haste reduces our GCD (global cooldown) and increases cast speed allowing for more PW:S usage, although increased cast speed will drain your mana faster
Versatility is a linear gain in healing, damage and reduction in damage taken.
Talent/Glyph Cheat Sheet
Words of Mending
Glyph of Weakened Soul
Glyph of Penance
Glyph of Holy Fire
Desperate Prayer wins here in my book, on demand healing trumps absorb you must be near death to activate
Spectral Guise is great for certain fight mechanics allowing you to negate certain fixates
Angelic Bulwark grants a shield when you drop below 30% equal to 15% of your maximum health, less healing and control than Desperate Prayer but less maintenance
Angelic Feather easily the best movement speed that can be shared if you are generous
Body and Soul as Discipline can be very strong with encounters like Gorefiend’s Shared Fate mechanic where the target is taking damage and needs the movement speed increase. Otherwise an unpredictable movement boost can be surprising and throw off your movement.
Mindbender gives good mana regen around 90-95% of what Solace used optimally will return (varies with haste). Mindbender scales dynamically with Haste, so pairing this with Power Infusion or using with lust drastically increases the mana return.
Power Word: Solace Replaces Holy Fire and removes its mana cost while also regening 2% max mana per cast. You are also casting Holy Fire anyway, so this should be something you are used to casting as is.
Surge of Light is a free Flash Heal proc that can now work off of your Power Word: Shields
As a default, Void Tendrils is not a bad choice as there often are adds you can root. But does not matter generally, let the fight dictate which of these that you use.
Twist of Fate unfortunately does not work with Disc’s shields nor can it be activated by shielding a low health target, not enough of a benefit to make use of
Power Infusion this is the go-to for Discipline from the strong and consistent benefits that it grants you as well as the overall lackluster other options in this tier
Spirit Shell our old favorite from MoP has become a talent and its purpose of shielding the raid has been replaced by PW:S blanketing.
Divine Star the only 90 talent without a cast time, and the lowest cooldown of the three. Sees more use on encounters where the raid is stacked up for the majority of the fight
Cascade is now more rarely taken by both Holy and Disc due to its lack of healing after the spell power nerf going into 6.2 and the damage patterns becoming more bursty, favoring Halo.
Halo has largely outpaced Cascade thanks to the damage patterns becoming more bursty in Hellfire Citadel and the spell power nerf to Cascade going into 6.2. You must position yourself appropriately to gain the maximum value from it, but extremely effective
Clarity of Will is a castable, stackable shield that can easily help your raid bypass entire raid mechanics, or provide strong tank healing. It has a long cast time but can be refreshed so there is no worry of overheal if used correctly.
Words of Mending is a fantastic free benefit to casting your Shields on the raid, and can result in a substantial healing increase and will most likely be the go-to talent for T18.
Saving Grace is now instant cast and has seen some use on Mythic Gorefiend, use at your own discretion.
Holy Fire extends the range of your main atonement spells (Holy Fire/Solace/Smite) allowing you to generate Evangelism at a further distance
Penance allows you to move while casting for a slight increase in mana cost.
Weakened Soul reduces the debuff that Power Word: Shield applies to the affected target allowing you to cast another Shield on them sooner.
Fade not a bad glyph in general but also not an amazing one. If you are taking moderate, constant damage in an encounter this, used on cooldown, can make a solid impact on reducing this for you if you have the glyph slot to spare.
Prayer of Mending This glyph can be fantastic in 5 mans but is often not worth it in raids where the raid damage is hitting everyone and constantly causing PoM to bounce to it's next target.
Restored Faith with the majority of your spell casts being instant/castable on the move we are a very mobile healer ultimately devaluing this glyph, not to mention it removes our ability to save a life when a dreaded DC or lag spike hits a raid member in the line of fire.
Purification can be useful on a fight with a lot of dispells
Arcane Acuity is a passive ability that increases Critical Strike chance by 1%.
Arcane Torrent restores 3% of maximum mana
Heroic Presence increases Strength, Agility, and Intellect, scaling with character level.
Gift of the Naaru now heals for the same amount over 5 seconds (down from 15 seconds).
Might of the Mountain is a new passive ability that increases Critical Strike bonus damage and healing dealt by 2%.
Stoneform now also removes magic and curse effects in addition to poison, disease, and bleed effects, along with reducing damage taken by 10% for 8 seconds. It remains unusable while CC'd.
Expansive Mind now increases maximum Mana, Energy, Rage, and Runic Power by 5% instead of only increasing maximum Mana.
Escape Artist’s cooldown has been reduced to 1 minute (down from 1.5 minutes).
Shortblade Specialization (was 1% Expertise with one-handed swords and daggers) has been replaced with Nimble Fingers.
Nimble Fingers is a new racial passive ability that increases Haste by 1%.
Time is Money now grants a 1% increase to Haste (up from only attack speed and spell haste).
Rocket Jump activates your rocket belt to jump forward on a 2 minute cooldown.
The Human Spirit increases Versatility, scaling with character level.
Every Man for Himself removes all movement impairing effects and all effects wgich cause a loss of control of your character.
Quickness increases movement speed by 2% in addition to increasing Dodge chance by 2%.
Touch of Elune is a new passive ability which increases Haste by 1% at night, and Critical Strike Chance by 1% during the day.
Shadowmeld lets you slip into the shadows, reducing the chance for enemies to detect you
Pandaren: Epicurean is the star of their racial abilities, the 100% boost on their food buff makes that 125 food into 250 food, giving a significant boost to your stat of choice.
Quaking Palm has it's place as a four second incapacitate that turns off your auto-attack, but you won't be making much use out of it in a raid setting.
Brawn increases Critical Strike bonus damage and healing done by 2%.
Endurance now increases Stamina by an amount scaling with character level, instead of increasing Base Health by 5%.
War Stomp stuns up to 5 enemies within 8 yards for 2 seconds
Berserking increases Haste by 15% (down from 20%) for 10 seconds.
Beast Slaying increases XP earned from killing Beasts by 20% instead of increasing damage dealt versus Beasts by 5%.
Will of the Forsaken cooldown has been increased to 3 minutes (up from 2 minutes).
For food you will go with 125 Mastery food Sleeper Sushi (Because feasts give you your attunement stat of Crit eat 125 food whenever possible)
Draenic Mana Potion: Restores between two values of mana, dependent on level used. At level 100 restores 32300 to 35700 mana.
Draenic Channeled Mana Potion: Provides the most benefit but you must channel it's full duration for max benefit.
Draenic Intellect Potion: Provides throughput boost.
This is meant to be general guidelines for healing as Discipline, this is not the end all be all and often will change based on encounter requirements. Check out the specific encounters discussions for a particular fight.
- ABCs, Always Be Casting
- Build Evangelism while Archangel is on cooldown through Solace/Holy Fire/Smite/Penance
- Power Infusion, paired with Archangel, on cooldown to quickly Shield the raid before
incoming damage, these can be held briefly to pre-Shield incoming damage
- Defensive Penance on injured targets as needed
- Penance offensively if no one is taking damage or to catch up on Evangelism
- Clarity of Will on tanks or priority targets as needed
- Power Word: Shield on tanks/targets as needed
- Empowered Archangel using the buffed Prayer of Healing during the buff range (with T17 4pc you will cast PoH during the 6 second mana cost window)
- Flash Heal for emergency injured single targets who cannot be shielded
Discipline is very fight dependent with your playstyle, our role is often as the shield healer
If a group is at extremely low health you will prioritize shielding them to save lives rather than using Prayer of Healing, but if they are not in danger you can use PoH to maximize HPS
Often Disc comes down to timing, learning the encounters and when the damage occurs is key
Every fight has moments that separate a good disc from a great disc, be sure to check the Tier 18 Boss/Talent Discussion for specific encounter tips viewforum.php?f=93
As a healer getting tier over dps doesn’t always happen and whilst on progression it is optimal for us to run 2pc T17 with 2pc T18 for ease of playstyle
Ideal gear for progression will vary from the Best in Slot when progression is over. During progression making use of both 2 piece bonuses from T17 and T18 will be preferred to immediately trying to acquire full T18 especially as healers are not commonly the first to receive tier pieces.
A full Best in Slot list for Disc Priests can be found here
Conclusion, Disc in Progression Raiding
Discipline’s playstyle is the most criticized of all healers due to the fact that it prevents damage rather than reactively healing it up which causes other healers to overheal more. Generally speaking, a good disc priest is not concerned with blanketing the raid with absorbs before pre-planned raid cooldowns to simply maximize their HPS. Instead a good disc priest lines up their cooldowns in an intelligent fashion to help the raid overcome the most threatening points of an encounter. It is important as a disc to know the damage patterns of a fight, but also to be able to identify what damage sources are actually threatening to your raid’s survival. This is where the skill cap comes in and separates world class discipline priests from your everyday healer.
In some cases, the raid may be taking small ticking or pulsing damage but if your tank or a priority raid member is about to take a large hit of damage then blanketing the entire raid with absorbs instead of using Clarity or Penance on said target is certainly not the most useful option, despite it potentially making you look better on healing meters. In cases where maximum HPS is required, knowing exactly when to start pre-shielding so you can maximize the your shielding before damage starts is essential as well as being able to re-shield the initial Weakened Soul debuff targets rapidly – phase 1 blackhand comes to mind.
It’s easy to say that Cascade is a simple use-on-cooldown and forget it sort of spell, but an intelligent Disc priest will precast it and understand how to make the most out of this spell. Using Cascade on an initial target that is at a large range from you maximizes it’s healing. Precasting it before something such as Hans and Frans jumping damage allows for you to receive the vast majority of its healing during the dangerous window of damage while you can cast during the damage.
Finally, it is important to understand as a Disc to play to the strength of your raid team. Having the ability to cast 0 overheal spells (absorbs) before damage even happens is something unique to Discipline, however it is important to let spells such as Healing Rain, Efflorescence and others do their jobs. It is not effective, nor intelligent from a healing, mana-management or a cooperative standpoint in a progression environment to pre-shield 10+ raid members before a low-heat Blast on The Blast Furnace encounter, causing tons of overhealing for the other healers. Maintaining mana so that you are able to PoH more in the last phase or give more attention to the players with Volatile Fire later in the encounter is much more useful to your raid’s overall success. Analyzing these situations and reacting properly to them, while healing with your fellow healers as a team is essential to successfully healing in progression.
by Adinne » 24 Jun 2015, 09:19
I got a few points I would not quite agree with, and I tend to focus on those rather than the parts I liked; so don't take this to mean I didn't like the guide, in fact I did like it quite a lot.
First off ranking Haste so low. Maybe I'm in the minority I don't know. But given what a huge benefit to hps haste provides in the presence of Borrowed Time, I think it deserves to be higher and it makes up for its spirit cost in my view. I tend to prefer it to Crit, personally.
At close 100% BT uptime, even for PW:S the weights for mastery/haste would be at around 0.5/0.56 at full buffs, with crit/multi back at 0.38. So in terms of hps haste is ahead of even mastery on PW:S, and it's almost 50% ahead of the other stats (0.56/0.38). Sure it hurts us on spirit, but I'm not sure that's enough to outweigh its benefits.
This assumes of course that we can fill in the extra time with useful spells. Especially for a CoW build, it's in my opinion second best stat after mastery.
MB/Solace. I posted a bit about this on another thread, but the way I see it is that if you need the HFs to build AA then it's a no-brainer, you should go Solace as you would need to waste those GCDs anyway. And if you don't need them, then MB is a no-brainer. Even if MB is slightly ahead of mana if you do need to cast HFs, I think it is worth factoring in that you are also giving up an extra GCD every minute. Bottom line is I don't think it's fair to say that MB saves you 5 GCDs a minute. On the contrary, MB becomes viable when you do not need to spend those GCDs in the first place, and is unsuitable if you do need to spend them. But the spending of those GCDs is an "external force" that dictates the talent choice, and not the other way around.
CoW vs WoM vs SG:
First of all, I know I am in the minority, and probably contradicting what I was saying a long time ago, but personally I have found the rare usage for SG. There are times in our raids where our tanks get absolutely hammered out of nowhere, and two SGs back-to-back that bring the tank back to full are totally worth the 8 second reduced healing that follows. One could argue that this is more a question of proper tank CDs and or other healers having better toolkits, and to a large part I would agree. But I would say that I have found it personally occasionally useful, and it depends a lot on your group composition and other healers. Perhaps there's no place for it at high-end raiding, but there might a number of use cases in more casual raiding.
As for CoW vs WoM, I go back and forth. I agree that WoM brings good numbers, so it is a good choice on paper. But in my opinion the kind of healing that WoM does is precisely the kind of healing that other healers can bring. So in my view WoM just increases the other healer's overhealing, and is not going to save any lives. From that point, I prefer CoW unless you are really in a situation where you won't have the GCDs for it. I think even the occasional CoW on the tanks or preparing someone for big damage is more useful than the PoM-bouncing.
HELP me with HealCalc: https://github.com/skiadas/HealCalc3/wiki/How-to-help
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by Ashleycakez » 24 Jun 2015, 09:53
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by shinbou » 26 Jun 2015, 05:24
Even so raid drops shouldn´t determin a stat prio. Haste is valued pretty high, its just depending on how much you are comfortable with it. Just putting a stat prio without explanation the use of haste is abit strange to me.
Anyway rest of the guide seems nice, a little fast written in my opinion and not really for new priests. But understandable.
by Cious » 26 Jun 2015, 07:01
Before you say "CoW" CoW is used primarily for two reasons to mitigate tank damage or to mitigate large amounts of predictable single target damage. After lengthy conversations with other MYTHIC raiding Disc priests the consensus is the damage meta for T18 favors that of WoMPoM with tank damage taking more of a back seat than last tier and the burst damage phases of fights coming more frequently than predictable single target bursts that would require more than a PW:S
That being said you could make an argument that haste could be a good stat in the same way you could argue versatility could be a good stat but pushing new players who don't know better towards haste over BETTER secondary stats in MS and Crit will certainly circumvent what a few of us are attempting to do here in resurrecting H2P's healing community reputation
by Redsparowe » 26 Jun 2015, 08:36
And a note on the BiS list included in the guide. I'm not sure if it was made specifically for the guide or linked from elsewhere. I can't find a combination of stats weights that puts Desecrated shadowmoon Insignia ahead of Phylactery, Intuitions Gift or Flickering Felspark whilst simultaneously making Cloak of Insatiable Greed and Pompous Ceremonial Ring better than non-spirit alternatives.
This would imply some sort of spirit 'cap', which I would be very interested to hear about how you determined how much spirit is needed. (I can't word that to sound non-confrontational, I genuinely am curious about how people determine how much spirit they need)
by Ashleycakez » 26 Jun 2015, 09:08
Helm - Demon Prince's Ascendant Crown - Archimonde
Shoulders - Tier - Xhul'horac
Chest - Tier - Mannoroth
Gloves - Tier - Socrethar the Eternal
Pants - Tier - Gorefiend
Boots - Dessicated Soulrender Slippers - BoE
Neck - Vial of Immiscible Fluid - Xhul'horac
Cloak - Shawl of Sanguinary Ritual - Kilrogg
Wrist - Contemptuous Wristguards - Tyrant Velhari
Belt - Demonbuckle Sash of Argus - Archimonde
Ring - Loathful Encrusted Band - Tyrant Velhari
Trinket 1 - Demonic Phylactery - Socrethar the Eternal
Trinket 2 - TBD
Weapon 1 - Edict of Argus -Archimonde
Where TBD is Shadowmoon Insignia/Intuition's Gift/Flickering Felspark. Haven't quite decided yet.
Of course I'd still grab the Spirit ring and cloak as a sidegrade if being passed upon. You know, in case Phylactery never drops for me ... plz no repeat of Cata T_T
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by Redsparowe » 26 Jun 2015, 09:33
Ashleycakez wrote:I just reviewed that list and noticed it seems very Spirit heavy as well. Perhaps its warranted on the forefront of progression (?), but I personally opted for:
Of course I'd still grab the Spirit ring and cloak as a sidegrade if being passed upon. You know, in case Phylactery never drops for me ... plz no repeat of Cata T_T
I was actually considering bumping up the value of spirit for my own BiS list with the premise of running SoL and spirit shell. I have to say from week 1 heroics, spirit shell does look like it could have some uses...
PS; I don't think it's worth the ilvl drop to use Shawl of Sanguinary Ritual, the Cloak of Hideous Unity looks like a stronger option to me. Although I do value haste quite highly.
by Cious » 26 Jun 2015, 10:50
@Ashleycakez The guide was designed as a entry to the next level of raiding be it normal > heroic or heroic > mythic where as you said on progression it is typically a good idea to take as much spirit as you can. When you reach farm content a single BiS list wouldn't apply to everyone because your "comfortable spirit value" will differ from others.
As for the trinket list mastery really is the top dog with stats so having one that provides a big chunk of mastery as well as int (albeit in a lesser form via a proc) makes it pretty damn skippy. If you look at the rest of the list every piece that has spirit on it also has mastery the difference in non-spirit pieces in those slots vs spirit amounts to 115 mastery (barring the legendary ring). If you were to do the same for the Shadowmoon trinket vs the Felspark it would amount to almost double that mount, so ultimately it was an arbitrary line I drew when making the list.
by Aethyx » 26 Jun 2015, 11:40
Cious wrote:Secondly Healcalc has for as long as I can remember prioritized haste way higher than it should be
If there is anything wrong with the math behind healcalc, I'm sure Adinne wants to know. Other than mathematical errors, there is no "should", the value of haste is a fact, you can only disagree with how much that math is valued in a conclusion.
Cious wrote:our job is not to blanket PW:S and look good HPS wise. [snip] Our job is to mitigate damage that would prove otherwise fatal or to greatly increase the survivability of a raid mechanic. [snipping to a bit later] a debuff preventing rapid PW:S on the same target GREATLY DEVALUING HASTE.
Increase survivability of a raid mechanic, right? Here:
-Inferno Slash, Acid torrent/retched blackrock, High-heat Blasts, Volatile Fire, Tantrum+Savage Howl combo, Blackhand smash, Blackhand ph3 impales + the debuffs, Focused Blast, Edict of Condemnation, triple felstorm...
That's just a small selection of big hits that hit a fair amount of players and hits them quite hard. Would you prefer 5 people shielded for an on average higher (but RNG) amount, or do you want 6-7 people shielded for this?
The only fight I've actually ran into the issue of waiting for Weakened Soul to fall off, was the butcher, where 5 people got hit a couple times in a row. Even then I could easily get around that with the 2s reduction glyph and throwing in more shields on the tanks (I never ran into this issue with 6-7 targets).
As a "MYTHIC" raider myself, I've tested holy a few times in T17, sometimes on farm bosses, sometimes on progress bosses or bosses we've only killed once or twice. Every time I do so, my raid leader (also a healer) tells me to go back to disc whenever we wipe even once, because it gets so much more sketchy and unreliable without a good layer of absorbs on anyone taking damage, including the big AOE hits present on almost every boss.
Cious wrote:With that said we want the most out of every shield we cast on someone [snip] Before you say "CoW" CoW is used primarily for two reasons to mitigate tank damage or to mitigate large amounts of predictable single target damage. [snip] the consensus is the damage meta for T18 favors that of WoMPoM [snip] burst damage phases of fights coming more frequently than predictable single target bursts that would require more than a PW:S
Let's just say that these quotes, from within the same post, firmly disagree with each other.
The amount of shielding you can guarantee of a PW:S is that of a 'base' one (as in no crit and no multistrike). This renders both stats useless for the 'predictable single target bursts', because it's unreliable output. This means you -have- to take CoW for the rare cases that you need big, single target, shielding. (true, they are rare, the mythic versions of Maidens, Blackhand and Imperator are the only ones that come to mind).
Crit and MS increase in value only when you are healing the same 1-4(ish) targets for a long period of time, like tanks, and the healing can't rely on CoW (too much movement perhaps). Once you did spec CoW, the values go back to whatever maths out the best.
So what does that leave us with? The big bursts of AOE damage. What helps for those? Correct, lots of shields, everywhere. How can we do that? Mastery and Haste.
Cious wrote:That being said you could make an argument that haste could be a good stat in the same way you could argue versatility could be a good stat but pushing new players who don't know better towards haste over BETTER secondary stats in MS and Crit will certainly circumvent what a few of us are attempting to do here in resurrecting H2P's healing community reputation
Conflicting statements within the same post is an even better way of doing so.
2 thing I want to make clear. First of all, no stat is a 'bad' stat. Every stat is useful. Every stat increases your healing, except Agility and Strength (arguably Stamina, but I prefer surviving the big hits so I can heal). Secondly, mastery is far and beyond the best stat for the current playstyle of spamming PW:S. This discussion about what is the second best secondary stat has gone on for a while, and it probably doesn't even matter much. You like less haste? Go for it! There's a myriad of arguments for both sides (mathematical increases vs spirit cost, etc, etc, etc), and quite minimal practical choices that can be made regardless, since you're already stuck with any piece that has mastery.
All in all, I'm in favor of haste, I had no mana issues as disc last tier and I doubt that will change with higher ilvl gear unless the healing style shifts to way more PoH and much less to PW:S spamming.
Forgot to credit Jak for a really good and concise guide, I did enjoy reading through it, it's pretty much on-point I do think. Also credits for your appearance in Finalboss' Healing priest episode!
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